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Old 11-28-2011, 12:09 AM   #51
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Oh sorry didnt see
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Old 11-28-2011, 12:15 AM   #52
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I always keep fish in the tank. IME it is less stressful for them to be in the tank they are used to even though you are working on it than to put them all in containers, aerate them, worry about temp, acclimate them back to their own tank, etc. I have swapped out gravel for sand in many tanks, my own and my clients', and have not had any issues doing it this way.
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Old 11-28-2011, 01:43 AM   #53
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I'm taking tarpon's comment as sarcastic/humorous. I sincerely hope it is!
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Old 11-28-2011, 01:46 AM   #54
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In general, I keep them in the tank. It's just this one freaky little fish, I don't want him to die of shock! I think I'll leave him in, and if he starts zipping around the tank a lot, take him out. Wish me luck!

And thanks everyone for all your help.
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Old 11-28-2011, 02:30 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Sisserydoo View Post
I'm taking tarpon's comment as sarcastic/humorous. I sincerely hope it is!
WHAT? How DARE you take over your OWN THREAD after it's already gone so far...
Way back in the day, my parents used to move all the fish out of the tank and into bowls of water while the tank was taken apart, cleaned (including washing the gravel if I remember correctly,) then put back together. Always threw out the dirty filter media and replaced it with clean floss and charcoal.
We usually got new fish soon afterward.
I remember one occasion when the tank was cleaned shortly before we went out to a movie. When we returned a couple hours later every fish in the tank was dead, and just about every suface in the tank was covered with tiny air bubbles. That was the worst case, usually at least some of them survived.
Fortunately, I know better now than my well-meaning but woefully ignorant parents did back then. I leave the fish in the tank when I wash the gravel.
On a serious note though, it is less stressful for the fish to remain in the tank. Given some sort of cover (temporarily floating plastic plants if nothing else) the gourami will most likely hide there while you work on the tank. Giving them some sort of cover/hiding place makes the fish much less inclined to jump out of the tank while you're working on it. It's downright amazing how many fish can crowd together under a single rock when they want to.
There are exceptions though; IME cutteri seem to think they're related to flying fish, and will jump a surprising distance when disturbed with very little running start.
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Old 11-28-2011, 02:48 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Sisserydoo
I'm taking tarpon's comment as sarcastic/humorous. I sincerely hope it is!
Uhh...yeah...of course it was.
And i switched from gravel to sand and left the fish in also.....

and they DIED!
Jk they were fine
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:01 AM   #57
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I graduated 3 years ago, not 25. I completely understand that science changes over time though.

Unless all of a sudden slower water keeps things moving and suspended and fast moving water drops sand, silt, and mud, that fact will not change.

NLS=New Life Spectrum. IME it is by far the best food out there. I say that and bring it up when food is discussed. Some people who are more active and disagree with it get annoyed because they see it so much. I am more vocal about it and active on the forum so other more active people (like mods and very active members) see it more (usually coming from me). Usually it stays to debates where diet is actually being discussed, but obviously not always.

Estes Marine Sand is also know as Ultra Reef and Stoney River. It is a certain type of sand that I have been using for 5-6 years now and it is the only one I recommend. It is very uniform in size and the perfect size. It also gives color options that you can't usually find in cheapo sands that are not made for aquariums (like pool filter sand). Again, I bring it up when sand is being discussed and people who are more active and disagree get annoyed when they see it.

There are many things I have learned over fifteen years of fishkeeping. I have been a hobbyist, store employee, dept manager, store manager, and now own my own aquarium maintenance company. I also had an article published in this year's Aquarium Fish International magazine and have two or three accepted by and awaiting publication in Tropical Fish Hobbyist. The things I have learned from all of this allow me to have tanks that are very easy to maintain and allow the fish to thrive. The two most important are the quality of the food and water. Without these fish simply can't thrive long term. Sand allows my tanks to stay so clean that I never have to vacuum or do any other substrate maintenance. I try to share this experience with customers, clients, and other hobbyists. The problem is that many people argue against it because other methods are not so bad that they feel they are doing things just as well. I have tried and seen just about every type of setup out there, different diets, substrates, etc. There is a reason I do things the way I do, but some people just don't want to change, and that is okay for them, and usually okay enough for their fish.
So If I don't do everything the exact same way as you I'm wrong. Maybe there is food better then NLS. There is a lot of food out there that's for sure! If its so good how come none of my 7 lfs sell it. Majority said they haven't even heard if it. Also just cause water moves it doesnt make sand. The only thing I got out of that hole thing was that your seem to think your always right and won't change.
One more thing, just because you have sand how does it change from hang waste and uneaten food from falling and lying on the substrate?
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:18 AM   #58
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In addition, it also shows what I have seen, that most people who use UGFs have been using them since they were considered the best or one of the best options. They have been using them, figured out how to manage them well enough, and stick with them. They work, no one is arguing that. But that doesn't mean they are the best, especially in a hobbyist's tank. The only customers I have had ask about them are ones who have been out of the hobby for 10-20 years or more.

[/QUOTE]I believe for a good undergravel filter you need a power head not an airstone. Also I no a good amount of people who have both undergravel and hob filters and have the pros and cons to both. You can't just simply say this filter is no good at all. And a lot of the lfs aroun here use hob filters.
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:21 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Fishguy2727
I always keep fish in the tank. IME it is less stressful for them to be in the tank they are used to even though you are working on it than to put them all in containers, aerate them, worry about temp, acclimate them back to their own tank, etc. I have swapped out gravel for sand in many tanks, my own and my clients', and have not had any issues doing it this way.
You don't need to acclimate of everything was kept the same
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Old 11-28-2011, 08:51 AM   #60
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The plastic plants are a good idea, as they're going to float without the gravel anyway. Sometimes it's like duh...I should've thought of that!!!
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