undergravel filter questions

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tropicfishman

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hey guys, I was wondering if you could help me out on some questions I have about undergravel filters. This will be used in a 10 gallon tank BTW. OK, I was wondering how these things are setup, i bought one along time ago for my 29 gallon from wal mart and never could figure it out, no one at walmart knew what i needed or how they worked back then. SO anyways, since these are relativly cheap and i like to waste money on useless things i don't need i want one lol. Can you tell me everything that is needed, from air hoses, connectors, cartridges, filter itself, etc. and how to hook it up. I own a small air pump thats running a bubble stone and tube but i'm going to buy a dual outlet one in the next day or so for added power. What i don't understand is this, you have a filter plate under the gravel with one or two plastic tubes coming up to the top of the water, on top of the tubes is a charcoal cartridge, an air pump is conencted to that, so how do these work then, if thats how its hooked up wouldn't that force air down the tubes and up through the gravel? If so, then what would be the purpose of the charcoal packs at the top? Any help is greatly appreciated
 
Is there a reason why you want a ugf? They are not as effecient as a hob or canister and turn into Nitrate factories.
 
UGF's are a thing of the past. Another thing to look at is later down the road, it's going to start building up a lot of crud, and also possibly get some anaerobic pockets if not cleaned properly. And the only way to clean properly is to completely remove so you can clean out all the crud.

HOB's and cannisters are the way to go nowdays, and are much easier to maintain. With a cannister, you have some setting up to do, but it's relatively easy. An HOB just hangs on the back of the tank, you put the filter cartriges in, add water, and turn on. Also, the HOB's are cheaper, and are very good. Cannisters are just as good for your biofilter, but as for cleaning the water, generally do a better job of removing small particles, making the water look much cleaner. So, IMO, cannisters, even though are a little more expensive, have the edge over HOB's. So the choice is yours.
 
I have had a UGF and when I removed it I was amazed at the gunk underneath it. It really suprised me. I wouldn't have one for anything, as mentioned they are nitrate factories.
 
I have a HOB filter, its a Regent and I hate it, I want a canister filter, but the people at www.thatfishplace.com, which is where i orde alot of my stuff, told me i couldn't use a canistor filter. I just want a canistor filter that can be used for my 10 gallon and still be used if i upgrade to a 29 or 55 gallon tank. The only draw back is the price of maintaing a canister filter, I was told by the same people you would have to replace all the media you use every two weeks, and that seems a little pricey to me......
 
If you upgrade to a 55, you will most likely need a new filter anyways, as a filter for a 10G won't have near enough capacity to filter a 55G. Cannisters are a little more expensive, but costs no more to maintain them. If using media like ceramic rings, etc, you just leave them in, never replace. So there's really not much cost to maintaining other than if you ever need to replace floss or a sponge, but those usually lasts years. So those people gave you wrong info.

As for sponges, all you have to do is rinse the sponge out in old tank water about every 3 or 4 weeks, unless you have a heavier bio-load, which would then be more often. As for the media, you will never have to replace, such as ceramic rings or lava media, etc.
 
And if they tell you you need to use carbon, you don't. Carbon is only used to remove meds from the water or tannins if you put driftwood in the tank, until it stops releasing tannins.
 
The only draw back is the price of maintaing a canister filter, I was told by the same people you would have to replace all the media you use every two weeks, and that seems a little pricey to me......

Wow, that salesman needs a sign...

You can use a cannister filter on a 10 gallon, your just going to want to restrict the flow to keep from blowing your fish around in a tornado. A good cannister filter will come with valves for disconnecting it during maintenece, they can be used to slow down the current too. Usually it's better to deflect the output though so your not putting exess strain on the pump, it just depends on the type of output you have.

You can also wash the filter media with tank water through a siphon hose and most likely not have to replace it for years if ever.
 
wait wait wait then why is carbon in all the HOB filter cartridges? so lets say i buy some media bags and decided to use them in my HOb filter, what would i need to put in them media wise besides zeolite to remove the ammonia and maybe some bio balls?
 
Also, some cannisters come with both a power output as well as a spraybar. A spraybar is great for reducing the amount of flow in any one spot, spreads it over a wider area, which may also help in a smaller tank.
 
what would i need to put in them media wise besides zeolite to remove the ammonia and maybe some bio balls?

A cycled tank won't have any ammonia to remove. The bio-balls collect bacteria that converts the ammonia to nitrite, then to nitrate. Then you just do the water changes to keep the nitrate down, once a week or two weeks depending on how many fish you have. The only thing you need in your filter is floss/sponge to remove particles, and the bio-balls to hold your bacteria if the floss gets too clogged or needs to be cleaned heavily enough to kill the bacteria.

The coal is used when you medicate the tank and want to remove the meds, or if you have tannins in the water from an un-cured piece of driftwood. Ammonia and nitrite should be removed by the bacteria, doing it any other way is expensive (bacteria are free) and usually prone to failure at some point.
 
tropicfishman said:
wait wait wait then why is carbon in all the HOB filter cartridges? so lets say i buy some media bags and decided to use them in my HOb filter, what would i need to put in them media wise besides zeolite to remove the ammonia and maybe some bio balls?

Not all HOB's use carbon. You can get cartriges with no carbon. It's not really necessary.

As for the ammonia, that's what the bio-media does, eliminates ammonia. The ceramic rings, lava media, etc, gets tons of bacteria in the pores, and as water passes through, the bacteria instantly eliminates the ammonia, turning it into Nitrite. Then when that nitrite goes by the 2nd bacteria, it is converted instantly to nitrate. So there's no need for zeolite, etc. And if you use zeolite during cycling, it can prolong cycling the tank, as it absorbs the ammonia, causing the bacteria not to grow as fast, as there's less food for them to grow to completely cycle your tank. Once completely cycled, the gravel and the bio-media do all the work for you, not the carbon or zeolite.
 
Media to use are ceramic rings or cylinders, lava granules, bioballs, biostars, floss, sponges. All are excellent for removing ammonia and nitrites. The ceramic rings and cylinders, lava granules, and bioballs generally never need replacing. The sponges and floss only need rinsing in old tank water and placed back in, and require occasional replacing. The only time you need to replace them is when they start falling apart, which can be 3-10 years, depending on the quality of the sponge or floss. A friend is going on 6 years on the same sponge, and looks to be in good enough condition for another 2 or 3 years possibly.
 
Filter floss needs to be changed everytime maintenance is done on the canister. But if you just use batting from Wal-Mart, you'll save a TON of money. It's something like $2 for a bag and it'll last you a year or so. The floss polishes the water and keeps small particles from entering the tank. If using ceramic rings, they don't ever get replaced unless they somehow start to disinigrate. I am going on 14 months with the same ceramic rings.
 
Basically they tell you to use carbon because then you will replace it every 2 weeks. It becomes inactive quickly and for it to do it's "carbon thing" it would have to be replaced and its money in their pocket.
 
I would suggest getting a small Penguin or Aquaclear HOB for your 10 gal, and deal with the cannister filter when you actually get the bigger tank. These HOBs cost $18 - $30 depending on where you buy. Online stores like Big Als are usually 60% of the lfs price.

The Penguin cartridges are a fibrous pad melted onto a slotted plastic tray filled with carbon. I don't concern myself at all with the carbon unless I'm dosing meds - it's just there and provides more space for good bacteria to grow. I wipe the crud off the pad every other week, and replace the cartridge when the pad wears thin and starts falling apart. I get about three months of use out of each cartridge - a far cry from the monthly replacement schedule recommended by the manufacturer. Remember, they make their money by selling cartridges!

I don't own any Aquaclears myself, but I've heard that they are superior to all other HOBs. They have a sponge and a big media basket that you can fill with whatever YOU want and need.

Cannister filters are the ultimate in low maintenance. I open my cannister filter every six months, and dunk the media baskets gently in a bucket of tank water to remove crud. Then I hose out the cannister itself, rinse off the coarse pad under running water, and replace the fine pad. Once a year, I replace about a third of my biological substrate because its small pores do become clogged with fine debris over time.

But as I said, I'd hold off on getting a cannister until you get your bigger tank.
 
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