Wet/dry or sump issue, or both?

[Mr.Micro]

Ok... So I'm in the process of setting up my 225.. I have (2) CPR 150s running into my wetdry (which is rated for a 300gal tank), via 1.5" PVC. The wet dry is connected to a 30 gal sump via (5) 1" bulkheads. The other end of my sump has a Mag 2400 waiting to pump the water back via (4) 1" PVC supplies coming off a 2" manifold. The trouble I'm having is when both CPRs are going, my wet/dry wants to overflow.. I would think (5) 1" bulkheads (+\- 4500gph), would be enough to get the water out. I've got a feeling the sump baffle is the culprit as it has maybe insufficient holes to allow the water into the refugium part of it, then up/over and down to the waiting pump.

I'm at work now and will mess around with it when I get home. Just wanted to throw it out there and see if anybody had any suggestions.

Thanks,
J

 

[Smitty]

I would think that a 30g sump is way too mall for a 225 tank. It is clear that regardless of any baffles, you are draining more water than can be returned. Is the sump completely filling up and then overflowing or is it overflowing from just one section?

 

[rambler67]

I think you have a couple of issues 1 the 30g sump is to small 2 you may have too much water in the tank. 3 you are draining 3200 gph and you are only returning only 2400 - any lose for lift and pluming. good luck and hopefully you dont food out your room ( that is not fun ).

 

[Mr.Micro]

Thanks for the replies.

The sump is not overflowing at all, the wet/dry wants to overflow. Which is where the water is going into first. The. The water drains into a sump via (5) 1" bulkheads. the water level in the sump is steady, going over the micro-bubble wall nicely. The restriction appears to be as it enters the sump.

Last night I drilled (2) 2 3/8" holes in the baffle plate of the sump and that prevented the wet/dry from overflowing, but only by an inch from the top. I added a mag 500 to pump water from the wet/dry into the sump and that lowered the. Water to about 3"-4" from the top.

I feel that if the sump were too small the water would be overflowing there and not the wet/dry.. And if the nag 2400 were too small it would create the same issue. Since the pump is keeping up, it's safe to say I'm not draining 3200gph, @ least INTO the sump.

For the record, I have a Rio 1200 on standby piped on it's own 1" PVC supply to supplement the mag 2400, I just haven't needed to turn it on at this point.

Here is some advice I can pass along to whomever reads this. I have my filter and sump sitting in a secondary drain pan that is PVC drains to my basement drain. This way if my filter or sump does want to overflow due to a failed pump, it will flow into a pan and straight to the drain. A principle I employed from attic air conditioner installations so water doesnt fall through people's ceilings.

Let me know what u guys think..

 

[Smitty]

Can you post a picture of this? You say wet/dry and sump. Are you running both? I'm not sure I follow you.

 

[Mr.Micro]

Yes, I am running both. I have a wet/dry from my friends old 300gal tank and a 30 gal sump as a supplement I will use as a refugium.

I WILL post pix when I get home, just left for the gym.

 

[jsoong]

I don't think it is the sump size at all ... yes it is a bit small, but the flow will balance out regardless of sump size as long as you have your overflow set right. The water return rate should be exactly the same as the pump flow rate, regardless of the overflow rated capacity.

If the wet/dry is overflowing, it can be a couple things:
1. The drain from the wet/dry to the sump is too small. I don't know how you hook the 2 up. in my case, the wet/dry is in the sump and I have a big drainage channel directly to the sump (1"x12" openings x2), so it can take any amount of flow I throw at it.
2. Your distribution plate holes are too small (or clogged) & it is backing up there. I have to re-drill my plate when I up the pump flow or it will not drain fast enough. It will also back up if the holes are clogged. <I have an emergency bypass on top of the distribution plate so that if it clogs, the water will just overflow into the sump & bypass the wet/dry.>
3. If your wet/dry is too tightly packed, esp. with dense sponge or packed floss, there might be too much obstruction there. <Try removing all media & see if it works better.>

 

[Mr.Micro]

@jsoong, I have a wet/dry filter rated for a 300 gal tank AND a 30gal sump connected to the wet/dry filter via (5) 1" bulkheads (+\- 4500gph capacity). I'm thinking the distribution plate at the sump enterance us the problem too.. I'm going to add a couple more 2 3/8" holes and see if that helps.

As far as media goes, this is a new set-up and I am in the test phase of the filter, so I have no media in place yet, or sand in the tank or anything. Basically testing for leaks and operation.

I'll post pix in the next hour.

Thanks all..

 

[rambler67]

Now i see i would try what jsoong said

 

[Smitty]

Ok, I'm understanding that more now. I though those 5 1" pipes where coming down from the tank, not going between the wet/dry and sump. Even with that number (plus the 2 extra you drilled) perhaps it still isn't enough (as you have seen yourself) but it sounds like you are on the right track in getting it going. Perhaps several large holes. Can you drill those 1" holes out to 2"?

 

[Mr.Micro]

@smitty, no I cAnt drill the 1" holes any larger. It's next to impossible to do that as the hole saws pilot bit would have nothing to catch. I'd also have to buy. 2" bulkheads. Besides, I would think (5) 1" holes rated apprx. 900 gal each would handle the flow of 3200 gph. I will drill a couple more 2 3/8" holes on the sumps distribution plate.

I'm on way home and will post pix soon.. Maybe a visual will help too.

Thanks guys!

 

[Mr.Micro]

Ok, here's some pix.... hope they help... I will try adding (2) more 2 3/8" holes after Easter dinner...

The 1st pic obviously shows the overflows going down into the wet/dry. That pipe to the left of the overflow is another 1" return hooked up to a Rio 1200 on stand-by.

Pic #2 Shows the attachment to the Wet/Dry. BTW, I know the (2) ball valves are usually a no-no on a supply line, however, i am at about 15x turnover so the restriction is ok and i plan to keep them fully open and never throttled down. I'm not using a micron bag, I'm using micron media on top of the wet/dry, so i added the unions and valves to enable maintenance access.

Pic #3 Shows Wet/Dry connected to the sump with the (5) 1" bulkheads. The one pump is the Rio 1200 and the other is the Mag 500 pumping water into the sump. The 'white' blotch on the upper left is some sand in the sump and can be used to gauge the top of the sump. (when looking at the picture) The black line on the wet/dry shows the water level in the wet/dry when both of those pumps are on.

Pic #4 Shows the sump side of the arrangement. The water level doesn't get higher than that while operating.

I'll post a few more pix in a bit...

In the meantime....thoughts?

Thanks.

 

[Smitty]

What is the level of water in the wet/dry as compared to the tallest baffle in the sump?

 

[Mr.Micro]

OK... Here's a few more Pix...

Pic #5 Shows (3) 1" returns coming off a 2" manifold. (It also shows my daughters reflection getting laundry out of the dryer).

Pic #6 Shows a close up of the sump... You can see the (2) 2 /38" holes i drilled and the pre-drilled rectangular holes. The water lever doesn't get more than a 1/2" higher in the sump. You can also see the bulkhead connections and the top of the wet/dry through the sump. Again, that white blotch on the right (this time) is sand that can be used to gauge the top of the sump when looking at this picture.

Pic #7 Shows the Mag 2400 sitting patiently. The water level pretty much stays the same when operating, as long as i have the Mag 500 and the Rio 1200 going in the wet/dry. Otherwise the water level drops so far in the return reservoir, the Mag 2400 has nothing to pump and THAT'S when the wet/dry wants to overflow. That leads me to believe the sump distribution plate is restricting the water onto the refugium part of the sump. So i'll see about adding more holes after dinner tonight.

I'm looking for advice before drilling a bunch of holes if they wont help.

Hope the pix help

Thanks All!

J

 

[Mr.Micro]

@ smitty, it's about even.... only if i have the Mag 500 and the Rio 1200 going...otherwise it wants to overflow... and as you may or may not be able to tell from the pix... that puts it about 3" over the tallest baffle.

 

[Smitty]

It is hard to tell but if those holes in that first baffle were too small I would think the water would flow up over the top off it, as long as that wouldn't put the water level over the top of the wet/dry.

 

[Mr.Micro]

Yea...that's true too...I'll have to watch that again when i fire it up tonight....

P.S. The pre-drilled holes in the 1st baffle are like 3/4" x 1" rectangles... I drilled the (2) 2 3/8" holes last night. I think i'm going to add 2 more of them too tonight.

 

[Mr.Micro]

Just touching base to keep the thread alive. I haven't had ANY time since Easter Sunday to mess with my set-up. I'm hoping tonight i will have an hr or 2 to go about it...

Will update again..

Thanks to all who replied!

J

 

[Mr.Micro]

Got IT!

OK... so it was in fact the first deflector plate in the sump causing the issue... I drilled (4) more 2 3/8" holes for a total of (6) plus the (2) pre-drilled rectangular holes in the plate. Now my water flows perfectly and my Mag 2400 can't keep up so the RIO 1200 MUST be used.

However, since my water level in the wet/dry is only 3" from the top, (which is too close for comfort in overflowing for me), I think i'm going to buy a Mag 1200 to join the Mag 2400 in return water and use the RIO 1200 to pump through the UV light and directly into the tank as opposed to back into the sump. That should lower the level in the wet/dry to a more comfortable/trusting height.

@Smitty, the actual height of the baffle plate in the sump in conjunction with the top of the wet/dry is actually a 1/2" lower, so when the water level reached the top of the plate, it was in essence reaching the top of the wet/dry too.

Problem solved... Thanks for all the replies and i will post pix of the completed project for those who maybe interested. After all, Aquariums built into a wall are always cool to look at.

Thanks all,
J

 

[Mr.Micro]

I learned something!

Well... I just spent the last 2hrs. working on the set-up again... and i realized... I should've elevated my wet/dry higher than my sump. The water level in the wet/dry will never drop lower than 3" from the top without starving the return pump (no matter what size), since the top of the wet/dry is actually 1/2" above the overflow wall... If i raised the wet/dry, the water level could've been anywhere i wanted depending on how high i raised it.

So now i'm faced with a dilemma, patch the sump holes i just drilled (5 - 1" bulkheads), raise the wet/dry and drill new holes to accommodate so the water level can drop and the wet/dry be more effective or leave it as it is and trust that with the current configuration the water level will remain steady at 3" from the top?

Opinions???