Which filter should I use.....

[happybunny]

Hey! first time aquarist over here!
Im going to be breeding some endangered fish for a research project to study their genetics.
Anyhoo, Ill be using 30-40gal tanks that have a large lip on the top so I cant use the hang-on-the-back power filters.
Ill be having 10-15 fish per tank depending on thier size. i was going by the "inch of fish per gallon" rule.
So Im debating using undergravel but that dont provide chemical filtration. OR the cheapie corner filtration..maybe 2 per tank?

ALSO! anyone with breeding experience that could help me out! or give me a link would be greatly appreciated!!

Thank you!

 

[ilovemydragongoby]

you could use a canister filter but those are a bit pricey.

and not many people will actually use the 1inch of fish per gallon. ...think about this way...this is just an example...but a 10 inch fish, in a 20gal tank, doesn't give them that much swimming room. you'll have to do some research on what kind of fish you're actually going to be getting. another example, a green spotted puffer needs a minimum of 30gals of space to himself.

one more thing, are you aware of the nitrogen cycle....and cycling tanks? heres a link for you, check it out...
Fishless Cycling


just a question what kind of fish were thinking of researching?

 

[happybunny]

they are endemic species of chub to california. they grow about 4-5 inches in 2 years but one of the subspecies gets to about seven. thanks 4 the article i needed a more step-by-step approach. i knew about the nitrogen cycle but after reading it i see i did a few things wrong!!

So i cant get to pricey...ya know funding. and im going to have about seven tanks total. so do you think undergravel is the way to go?

 

[ilovemydragongoby]

i'm not to firmiliar with undergravel filters. you can try sponge filters...they are relatively cheap . my lfs, which is basically like a 'ma and pa' shop, uses them in all their tanks. i dont know if they are that good by themselves tho. i know some people use them as a back up

 

[maxima423]

nah i would just go with 2 AC70's per tank, go to amazon.com, they have the pretty cheap filters on there, you save about 20-30$ per filter, if you are a college student, you can sign up for amazon prime and you can save money on shipping

 

[happybunny]

they wont fit because im not using a normal aquarium. I can figure out how to use/attach one of those in a good way. thats why i wanted to go with in-tank hardware....i think?

 

[maxima423]

what do you mean you aint using a normal aquarium??? is there atleast one straight side???

 

[happybunny]

no theres not. theres about 1 inch lip on all sides. its a fiber glass tank for experiments not display ya know. thanks 4 trying to help me out you guys!

 

[pat8you]

I've only heard bad things about under gravel filters. They end up getting clogged over time and have to be removed for clean. Not sure if you are planning on putting gravel in there or not but most breeders go bare bottom on their tanks because it is easier to siphon left over food and waste out before it becomes a problem.

I don't know how the $ would turn out in this idea but you can crunch some numbers and check it out. If you pick up a rubbermaid container or something similar and cheap you can use that as a common pool for your tanks if you plumb them together. PVC is cheap and then you could buy one nice filter and put it in that tank.

Couple advantages to this that might be worth considering
-one filter will make maintenance considerably easier
-a common water pool helps to keep your water parameters more stable
- extra tank can be used to house other common equipment like heaters and media reactors.

 

[JohnPaul]

Well, if the tanks can't handle an HOB due to the size of their lip, and canister filters are out because of the cost, you really don't have very many options.

If I were you, I might try to go with a combination of 1 corner ("box" or "internal") filter and one good-sized sponge filter in each tank. The Hydro-Sponge filters have a good reputation; I currently use those in my freshwater shrimp tanks and they do a fine job. This one would probably be the size for tanks you are describing. I'd personally stay away from under-gravel filters, they can be a pain when it comes to maintenance and sometimes can make your life much more difficult when it comes to keeping the substrate clean.

I don't know the first thing about the particular species of fish you are dealing with, but when it comes to breeding fish in general, the things that are going to help with having success would be:

• keeping your water clean--ammonia & nitrites zero, and nitrates at a minimum
• water parameters as close as possible to what the fish have in their native habitat (pH, temperature, GH/KH hardness, TDS)
• tank setup as close to their natural biotope as possible (do they come from waterways with lots of plants or very few? Can you grow in your tank native species of plants, or others that are very similar in appearance? Are they used to rocky bottoms or sandy? etc.)
• An understanding of whether or not adults will cannibalize their own fry; if they will, then you need to have plans to remove the adults to different tanks after the fry are born/hatched
• live food, and lots of it. While some species of fish can and will breed on a diet of commercial fish flakes, many fish are less likely to breed (or will not breed at all) without a diet of live foods

If the fish you are getting are actually tank-raised (and have never been in the wild), then when it comes to water parameters you would want to make sure yours were reasonably close to the tanks from which they came.

Good luck with your project. Please keep us informed.

 

[happybunny]

More great ideas! I hope the breeding part is relatively easy. Once i breed them. i have to care for the larvae until their big enough to take a genetic sample. And for that part of the experiment its absolutely necesary that the water parameters and other variables remain constant. I would like to know more about how to connect the tanks. I didnt quite understand what you were saying PAT8YOU but it sounded good. lol. can you send me an article or tell me more on how that works?

Also! thanks for tellin me to stay away from undergravel filters guys! I had my suspicions as to their usefulness....

 

[David S]

Definately go with pat's idea,have all the tanks side by side and connect the first to the second,second to the third etc,using 1"pvc pipe then from the last tank plumb to a tank which will have no fish but will have the heaters and filters,you could just use a decent amount of Live rock for filtration otherwise use a cannister,you you then need a return pump to pump the water back to the first tank.

 

[happybunny]

Okay so now i have even more questions!!
The PVC pipes would be one one set pumping water into the tanks and one set sucking it into the filter? would they need to extend down to the bottom of the tank? Has anyone ever done this? I need to see pictures!

 

[David S]

thats not quite right,I can't post any pictures right now but there is a picture in my profile under current stock which will help you

 

[mgamer20o0]

I've only heard bad things about under gravel filters. They end up getting clogged over time and have to be removed for clean. Not sure if you are planning on putting gravel in there or not but most breeders go bare bottom on their tanks because it is easier to siphon left over food and waste out before it becomes a problem.

I don't know how the $ would turn out in this idea but you can crunch some numbers and check it out. If you pick up a rubbermaid container or something similar and cheap you can use that as a common pool for your tanks if you plumb them together. PVC is cheap and then you could buy one nice filter and put it in that tank.

Couple advantages to this that might be worth considering
-one filter will make maintenance considerably easier
-a common water pool helps to keep your water parameters more stable
- extra tank can be used to house other common equipment like heaters and media reactors.

i am not a fan of UGF but people have used them for years and lots of people still use them. though the best way to use them would as a reverse under ground filter. doing this it pushes the water down though the pipes and up though the substrate. this helps turn the whole gravel bed into a bio filter. as for clogging like anything if you dont maintain it it wont work right. just like if you ran a canister and never clean it finally it will stop pumping any water at all.

More great ideas! I hope the breeding part is relatively easy. Once i breed them. i have to care for the larvae until their big enough to take a genetic sample. And for that part of the experiment its absolutely necesary that the water parameters and other variables remain constant. I would like to know more about how to connect the tanks. I didnt quite understand what you were saying PAT8YOU but it sounded good. lol. can you send me an article or tell me more on how that works?

Also! thanks for tellin me to stay away from undergravel filters guys! I had my suspicions as to their usefulness....

dont take this personally but why are you doing this? you dont seem to know about keeping fish. its not as easy as tossing some fish in breeding and netting out fry. i see several holes in your idea. like the inch per gallon is a myth it doesnt work in most all cases..... also expecting to keep 4-5 inch fish in a 30 gallon tank.... do you know about the water they come from? do you know how to take care of the fry? diet of the fish?

while it might seem like a noble idea.... though when dealing with endangered fish personally feel its better to leave things to people who know what they are doing. or at least learn the basics before working with endangered fish.

you could just use a decent amount of Live rock for filtration

i believe these are fw though i could be wrong.

 

[happybunny]

Well Im an undergrad student and I got hired to do this job....so of course IM going to try to do my best! I know I dont have the experience but Im trying to learn from other people. I STILL dont know which filter to use! it seems like its all a matter of opinion. BUT i did read that undergravel filtration doesnt have the chemical filtration aspect that is needed so I had decided to not use them at all. I do know about the fishes habitat and diet. I have some experience caring for fry but not with success
I did everything right but then they just started dying 1-2 at a time. I think it had to do with not eating...but even the ones that were growing died off eventually so Im not sure. I dont think it had anything to do with water parameters. but maybe the water changes were too shocking? Could have been a combination of both.