Future 10g red cherry shrimp tank - Page 6 - Aquarium Advice

bs6749 · 07-19-2008, 10:37 AM

Umm, do any of you realize that you don't need to cycle a tank that is going to have RCS in it? If the water has no ammonia/nitrites/nitrates to start with you can add some SeaChem Prime to take out any chlorines/chloramines and even ammonia, nitrites, nitrates if they ARE present. RCS have an EXTREMEMLY low bioload on a tank. I have 4 RCS tanks setup (3 ten gallons and a 29) and have never cycled any of them, just did what I recommended above and haven't had any significant losses. I have about 150 RCS in each of the ten gallon tanks and they are perfectly healthy.

Adding plants right away is the BEST thing you can do. I recommend any type of moss. I keep my tanks filled with java moss...the shrimp are constantly on it. Moss balls are great too. The plants will take in the wastes that may be harmful to the shrimp, especially the moss balls. I hear they are nutrient hogs.

For what it's worth, I'd get rid of the gravel in the tank. Shrimp like to dig around and filter through sand. Either get some washed playsand or do what I did and get a 40lb of pool filter sand for $8. That was enough to use in my 55 and 29 gallon discus tanks and 2 of my ten gallon shrimp tanks. Adding some slate to the tank can make it attractive as well.

new2betas · 07-19-2008, 11:03 AM

I'm sorry...I am very new to this and was under the impression that any tank that is set up should be cycled first....I had no idea that it wasn't necessary for red cherry shrimp. There are several members on here who have red cherry shrimp also and no one ever mentioned to me that it didn't need to be done. My cycle is just about complete so I will continue on the way I have been and put my shrimp in soon.

bs6749 · 07-19-2008, 12:42 PM

There's no need to be sorry. Not all tanks need to be cycled. In fact, I've only really cycled my 55 gallon tank 2 years ago and then either used seeded substrate or foam filters to establish new tanks. Quite often, such as your case, tanks won't need to be cycled before adding animals.

In your case, the plants will take care of any excess wastes which will be extremely low anyhow as shrimp don't produce any significant amount to begin with. Water conditioners such as Prime will take out any as well if you add that to the tank to start with. I'm just saying that I know you could easily have 100 shrimp in that tank to start with and they'd all be fine if you have plants in there. The biggest producer of waste in the tank will most likely be from you and not from the shrimp because of overfeeding, however, the plants are there to "detoxify".

It seems like most people on here are under the assumption that a cycle needs to take place before anything can be added to any tank, which unfortunately for you and others who believe them is not true. Take discus for example. They are thought to be one of the more difficult freshwater fish to care for but there is no need to cycle their tank as regular PWC's need to be done to keep them healthy. Cycling is not going to hurt but there are certainly instances, namely yours, where it's not required. Do you know where you are getting your shrimp? I am going to be listing some of mine on Aquabid next week. I have lots of juvies available and I also have java moss and ramshorn snails that you might want as a cleanup crew for that tank. If you are interested just shoot me a PM and maybe we can work something out.

kimo · 07-20-2008, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2betas

I just measured this sucker and it is too long to be put in width wise. It is around 17". So, I will need to put it in the tank length wise and still possible lean it to one side of tank (if it will all stay submerged). I don't want any pieces sticking out of the water. I also don't want to have to cut it now as it is all wet. It isn't even close to being water logged yet either. I don't think the rock slabs I have in the tank are enough weight to keep it submerged either. I will just wait it out....I still have time as my tank isn't cycled yet anyway. Although, I know it would probably further the cycle along if I could get it in there.

Easiest way to cure the size of the driftwood is: get a new 29g tank! LOL
MTS anyone?

kimo · 07-20-2008, 12:51 AM

"The bacteria are not living in the water much, but the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate are, these are just the food source not the actual bacteria. So you just diluted the levels while the bacteria are still hanging out in the filters"

The nitrite an nitrate ARE the bacteria... nitrosomonas and nitrobacter.
The ammonia is the food source. The nitrite is the food source for the nitrate.
The bacteria is everywhere, not just in the filter. On the glass, in the gravel, in the filter and a small portion is still in the water until the cycle is complete.

neilanh · 07-20-2008, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimo

The nitrite an nitrate ARE the bacteria... nitrosomonas and nitrobacter.

I don't think so. NitrIte and nitrAte are the waste products of the bacteria. It's true some bacteria does float around the water column, but most of it adheres to surfaces. High flow, high oxygenation, higher temperatures - areas of the tank with these things will grow higher concentrations of the bacteria as well due to more acceptable environment for the bacteria.

kimo · 07-20-2008, 01:09 AM

[quote=bs6749;883967]There's no need to be sorry. Not all tanks need to be cycled. Quite often, such as your case, tanks won't need to be cycled before adding animals.

In your case, the plants will take care of any excess wastes which will be extremely low anyhow as shrimp don't produce any significant amount to begin with. Water conditioners such as Prime will take out any as well if you add that to the tank to start with. I'm just saying that I know you could easily have 100 shrimp in that tank to start with and they'd all be fine if you have plants in there. The biggest producer of waste in the tank will most likely be from you and not from the shrimp because of overfeeding, however, the plants are there to "detoxify".

It seems like most people on here are under the assumption that a cycle needs to take place before anything can be added to any tank, which unfortunately for you and others who believe them is not true.

This is exactly what I have been trying to teach everyone on this board since I joined.... Fishless cycling has it's place but is not nessarily needed in each and every case. A silent cycle works in every case and you are not subjecting any animal to any cruelty. The same goes for "with fish" cycling.
Done correctly no harm is done.

kimo · 07-20-2008, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilanh

I don't think so. NitrIte and nitrAte are the waste products of the bacteria. It's true some bacteria does float around the water column, but most of it adheres to surfaces. High flow, high oxygenation, higher temperatures - areas of the tank with these things will grow higher concentrations of the bacteria as well due to more acceptable environment for the bacteria.

Nitrosomonas and nitrobacter ARE the bacteria...

Maybe I should have made it clearer that you are measuring the waste products given off by them. If you had read the post correctly, you would have seen that I said 99% of the bacteria were on fixed surfaces. That 1% is floating around because it is deposited there as spores from the air. Where do you think they came from in the first place...? Given that it wasn't transferred in from another tank.

bs6749 · 07-20-2008, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimo

"The bacteria are not living in the water much, but the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate are, these are just the food source not the actual bacteria. So you just diluted the levels while the bacteria are still hanging out in the filters"

The nitrite an nitrate ARE the bacteria... nitrosomonas and nitrobacter.
The ammonia is the food source. The nitrite is the food source for the nitrate.
The bacteria is everywhere, not just in the filter. On the glass, in the gravel, in the filter and a small portion is still in the water until the cycle is complete.

Nitrite and nitrate are NOT living and are NOT bacteria. Nitrite is the was product of the bacteria that consumes ammonia and nitrate is the waste product of the bacteria that consumes nitrite. The bacteria will always be in the tank. They don't just magically disappear when the cycle is complete. The majority of the bacteria will be found on surfaces especially in filter media and in the substrate and yes, even some in the water column.

kimo · 07-20-2008, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bs6749

Nitrite and nitrate are NOT living and are NOT bacteria. Nitrite is the was product of the bacteria that consumes ammonia and nitrate is the waste product of the bacteria that consumes nitrite. The bacteria will always be in the tank. They don't just magically disappear when the cycle is complete. The majority of the bacteria will be found on surfaces especially in filter media and in the substrate and yes, even some in the water column.

Nitrosomonas and nitrobacter ARE the NAMES of the bacteria!!!

"They don't just magically disappear when the cycle is complete."

I never said they did.

07-19-2008, 11:03 AM	#52
new2betas Aquarium Advice FINatic Join Date: May 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 943	I'm sorry...I am very new to this and was under the impression that any tank that is set up should be cycled first....I had no idea that it wasn't necessary for red cherry shrimp. There are several members on here who have red cherry shrimp also and no one ever mentioned to me that it didn't need to be done. My cycle is just about complete so I will continue on the way I have been and put my shrimp in soon. __________________ Dottie - I'm Pisces - that explains EVERYTHING!

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07-19-2008, 10:37 AM	#51
bs6749 Aquarium Advice Addict Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Lawton, MI Posts: 1,367	Umm, do any of you realize that you don't need to cycle a tank that is going to have RCS in it? If the water has no ammonia/nitrites/nitrates to start with you can add some SeaChem Prime to take out any chlorines/chloramines and even ammonia, nitrites, nitrates if they ARE present. RCS have an EXTREMEMLY low bioload on a tank. I have 4 RCS tanks setup (3 ten gallons and a 29) and have never cycled any of them, just did what I recommended above and haven't had any significant losses. I have about 150 RCS in each of the ten gallon tanks and they are perfectly healthy. Adding plants right away is the BEST thing you can do. I recommend any type of moss. I keep my tanks filled with java moss...the shrimp are constantly on it. Moss balls are great too. The plants will take in the wastes that may be harmful to the shrimp, especially the moss balls. I hear they are nutrient hogs. For what it's worth, I'd get rid of the gravel in the tank. Shrimp like to dig around and filter through sand. Either get some washed playsand or do what I did and get a 40lb of pool filter sand for $8. That was enough to use in my 55 and 29 gallon discus tanks and 2 of my ten gallon shrimp tanks. Adding some slate to the tank can make it attractive as well.

07-19-2008, 12:42 PM	#53
bs6749 Aquarium Advice Addict Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Lawton, MI Posts: 1,367	There's no need to be sorry. Not all tanks need to be cycled. In fact, I've only really cycled my 55 gallon tank 2 years ago and then either used seeded substrate or foam filters to establish new tanks. Quite often, such as your case, tanks won't need to be cycled before adding animals. In your case, the plants will take care of any excess wastes which will be extremely low anyhow as shrimp don't produce any significant amount to begin with. Water conditioners such as Prime will take out any as well if you add that to the tank to start with. I'm just saying that I know you could easily have 100 shrimp in that tank to start with and they'd all be fine if you have plants in there. The biggest producer of waste in the tank will most likely be from you and not from the shrimp because of overfeeding, however, the plants are there to "detoxify". It seems like most people on here are under the assumption that a cycle needs to take place before anything can be added to any tank, which unfortunately for you and others who believe them is not true. Take discus for example. They are thought to be one of the more difficult freshwater fish to care for but there is no need to cycle their tank as regular PWC's need to be done to keep them healthy. Cycling is not going to hurt but there are certainly instances, namely yours, where it's not required. Do you know where you are getting your shrimp? I am going to be listing some of mine on Aquabid next week. I have lots of juvies available and I also have java moss and ramshorn snails that you might want as a cleanup crew for that tank. If you are interested just shoot me a PM and maybe we can work something out.

07-20-2008, 12:51 AM	#55
kimo Aquarium Advice Freak Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Arlington TX Posts: 221	"The bacteria are not living in the water much, but the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate are, these are just the food source not the actual bacteria. So you just diluted the levels while the bacteria are still hanging out in the filters" The nitrite an nitrate ARE the bacteria... nitrosomonas and nitrobacter. The ammonia is the food source. The nitrite is the food source for the nitrate. The bacteria is everywhere, not just in the filter. On the glass, in the gravel, in the filter and a small portion is still in the water until the cycle is complete.

07-20-2008, 01:09 AM	#57
kimo Aquarium Advice Freak Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Arlington TX Posts: 221	[quote=bs6749;883967]There's no need to be sorry. Not all tanks need to be cycled. Quite often, such as your case, tanks won't need to be cycled before adding animals. In your case, the plants will take care of any excess wastes which will be extremely low anyhow as shrimp don't produce any significant amount to begin with. Water conditioners such as Prime will take out any as well if you add that to the tank to start with. I'm just saying that I know you could easily have 100 shrimp in that tank to start with and they'd all be fine if you have plants in there. The biggest producer of waste in the tank will most likely be from you and not from the shrimp because of overfeeding, however, the plants are there to "detoxify". It seems like most people on here are under the assumption that a cycle needs to take place before anything can be added to any tank, which unfortunately for you and others who believe them is not true. This is exactly what I have been trying to teach everyone on this board since I joined.... Fishless cycling has it's place but is not nessarily needed in each and every case. A silent cycle works in every case and you are not subjecting any animal to any cruelty. The same goes for "with fish" cycling. Done correctly no harm is done.