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Old 04-21-2012, 04:28 PM   #1
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Altum angel fish breeding

Will altum angel fish fry from same parents pair off if I grow them out?

I have a breeding pair of manacapuru red backs and I am supplying the young to a few LFS, so no problem rehoming them, but I was wondering if I kept a small group in a 60g grow out would they then eventually pair off giving me a new breeding pair should anything happen to my current pair?

Lastly, what would be the repercussions of breeding siblings, if they were to pair off? Can this be done for a few generations like with livebearers?
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:17 PM   #2
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I think many times fish are inbred more often than not. It's best to get fish from different blood lines and breed together but many breeders from what I understand breed fish through and through from their same stock. Then, every few generations breed a wild caught or another f1 back into them to strengthen the gene pool.
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:33 PM   #3
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Genetically speaking...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aron View Post
Will altum angel fish fry from same parents pair off if I grow them out?

I have a breeding pair of manacapuru red backs and I am supplying the young to a few LFS, so no problem rehoming them, but I was wondering if I kept a small group in a 60g grow out would they then eventually pair off giving me a new breeding pair should anything happen to my current pair?

Lastly, what would be the repercussions of breeding siblings, if they were to pair off? Can this be done for a few generations like with livebearers?

If these are wild Altums, there should be no problems breeding siblings. In fact, it's by breeding siblings and parent to offspring that genetic traits are "locked". At some point ( approx 5th generation) some new blood should be put in to reduce the numbers of misshapened and deformed fish from spawnings.

If these were tanked bred Altums and you don't know the genetic history of the pair, you may need to introduce new blood sooner. You'll be able to tell by the number of deformed fish in the first spawn. The more "rejects", the more inbreeding that has been done.

Hope this helps...
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Old 04-22-2012, 07:36 PM   #4
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Yeh i just double checked and they are imported wild caught manacapuru red back angels.

It just set me back a reasonable price and I was hoping to pair off some 2nd generation so I don't have to spend big in future!

Thanks for the help, it should be a while before I have to reintroduce some f1 to a group of my young then. I should maybe just get a new pair by then, a few generations equals a few year!

Anyway here is a pic of three i kept from their first raised batch!



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Old 04-22-2012, 08:33 PM   #5
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Well then...

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Originally Posted by Aron View Post
Yeh i just double checked and they are imported wild caught manacapuru red back angels.

It just set me back a reasonable price and I was hoping to pair off some 2nd generation so I don't have to spend big in future!

Thanks for the help, it should be a while before I have to reintroduce some f1 to a group of my young then. I should maybe just get a new pair by then, a few generations equals a few year!

Anyway here is a pic of three i kept from their first raised batch!



Attachment 90524
Well then, breed away
What we are talking about is simple genetics. It's how most of the fish in the aquarium hobby came to being. The biggest example of this that I can think of at the moment is the Pingu Guppy. There was an article in TFH magazine about the creation of this all pink fish. The pictures in the article showed the progression of the fish. It all started with 1 Guppy with 1 pink scale and eventually wound up being an all pink fish. That's what genetics does. As mentioned, at some point, after consistantly breeding brother to sister, you are going to get almost total spawns of deformed fish. When that happens, you should breed the parents of these deformed fish with another wild fish to re-insert the "normal" genetics of the fish.

Keep us posted
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Old 04-22-2012, 08:46 PM   #6
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good luck withyour angels
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Old 04-26-2012, 08:47 AM   #7
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If you do , in fact have red backs, they aren't altums, but a scalare variant. So, the title of the thread is a little misleading. True altums are difficult to breed. Regardless, you will be able to breed more than a few generations without any issues.
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Old 04-26-2012, 03:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
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If you do , in fact have red backs, they aren't altums, but a scalare variant. So, the title of the thread is a little misleading. True altums are difficult to breed. Regardless, you will be able to breed more than a few generations without any issues.
I was going to say something but didn't want to burst the bubble
Since my importing days, the newer discoveries in areas of S. America have brought many new varients of "common fish" into the trade. If there wasn't scientific confusion before, there has to be some now. LOL (Just look at all the plecos that have numbers and not names.)

Thankfully, the info provided here has more to do with genetics than fish names so don't let the name change fool you. The info still is appropriate.

I was fortunate enough to breed true wild Altums back in the 1970s with some moderate success. The key is to duplicate the wild water parameters which most people either don't or can't. Short of that, raising the fry is a hard task.

Keep us posted on your success
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:35 AM   #9
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Lovely angelfish.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:16 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aron
Will altum angel fish fry from same parents pair off if I grow them out?

I have a breeding pair of manacapuru red backs and I am supplying the young to a few LFS, so no problem rehoming them, but I was wondering if I kept a small group in a 60g grow out would they then eventually pair off giving me a new breeding pair should anything happen to my current pair?

Lastly, what would be the repercussions of breeding siblings, if they were to pair off? Can this be done for a few generations like with livebearers?
I think it would be alright if you inbreed the Fish the only problem with inbreeding is that it weakens the genetic variety of which to choose from so if you want to make a truly amazing strain of Angels go for it but I would use another fish outside the family to breed every now and then hope this helps
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