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Old 07-27-2008, 08:20 PM   #1
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Betta fry

My bettas are ready to breed. i have done everything up to the point where the male has just made his bubble nest. I have not been sure if im going to go through with it i decided i would just get up to this point and find out from there. But i am stuck my lfs(not a chain) does not buy baby bettas. i Have not tried petco or petsmart but i doubt the'll buy either. Does anyone know a good place to sell them to or can i sell them online anywhere? thanks in advance.
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Old 07-27-2008, 10:51 PM   #2
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Personally I wouldn't do it. You have to consider they can have HUNDREDS of fry and in just a couple of months they all have to be put into individual containers. Then there is the feeding and different foods. HUGE HUGE commitment.

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Old 07-28-2008, 06:00 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffyntex View Post
Personally I wouldn't do it. You have to consider they can have HUNDREDS of fry and in just a couple of months they all have to be put into individual containers. Then there is the feeding and different foods. HUGE HUGE commitment.

I COMPLETELY agree with fluffyntex. I have three male bettas and two female bettas and thought about breeding....UNTIL I read the committment involved and there are already SO many bettas dying in those nasty little cups in pet stores that I couldn't add to the problem. But, that is just my opinion. If you don't think you have any stores you could sell them to then I wouldn't get into it. Do you have 300-500 aquariums you could separate the fry in when the time comes? To me, it was too much of a responsibility with no one responsible to really sell them to, so I decided against it fast.
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:54 AM   #4
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ya i had the food and i already had a ton of jars more than enough to hold them all. But i gave up on the whole project last night. In the middle of the night some how no idea how my female got across the tank divider and just tore my male betta apart not what i was expecting would of happened. his entire bottom fin th ebig pretty one has holes all over it and is missing several sections from it. Thanks for the help i knew i shouldnt do it i just wanted to try it so bad to see all tose cute little bettas swimming around. Thanks for reminding me how much work it is.
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:22 PM   #5
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Hi Cobb. I looked at your profile and it says you are 14. Congratulations on being interested in such an amazing hobby. And good for you for being so concientious about your breeding interest.

I started breeding and selling bettas when I was only 10 years old.

There are some things you should consider before you completely dismiss the idea.

First off, as some of the posters have pointed out, many of these poor fish die in little containers, it is a shame. And more sadly is that the pet trade is still hiring people who won't make themselves knowledgeable enough to educate customers enough to take proper care of them. It is money money money.

Did you know that you can raise an entire brood of bettas together in the same tank and not have them kill each other? I have done this over and over. Secondly, while I sold fish to stores I always had the stores put MY bettas in the regular store tanks with other fish. I would not sell to a store unless they promised not to put them in little jars. It was very hard to persuade stores in the beginning. It took alot of work to teach stores to do it my way.

I personally think you should breed your fish. Why? I see you live in Iowa. You are as American as it gets. It is truly an American state. Most of our fish are being bred in countries outside of the USA and we are seeing a gradual and obvious trend in poor quality fish and a trend towards fast production, low quality and man made monster fish like parrots and other hybrids. The day of Florida farm bred fish is coming to an end rapidly.

Why do I bring this up? Because it is going to be up to American hobbyists to provide healthy home bred fish to stores and other hobbyists. Every hobbyist can do their part. By breeding these fish, learning how to do it, and becoming good at it, you can supply a small, and local market with something truly American. And your fish will be healthier, better equipped for tank life, and more importantly your hard earned money, (and mine) will not be sent outside of this country to feed people that have no interest in our well being.

And if you do it, and somebody else does it, and somebody else does it, then it really makes a difference in this business.

I encourage you to educate yourself on how to breed them. Raising them is easy, growing them out together is easy, and selling them will be even easier.

Just learn to breed first. I will be happy to teach you the selling part.

Bill
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Old 07-31-2008, 08:28 PM   #6
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thanks for the info bill, im glad your lfs is wiling to put them in the bigger store tanks i hate seeing them in little jars with an inch of water. I was wandering how many fry you usually end up with by the time it is time to sell them.
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Old 07-31-2008, 09:03 PM   #7
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Here is the truth about how many babies to expect.

There are basically two kinds of betta breeders, well,,maybe 3. One of course is the serious hobbyist. This is the person that pays special attention to bloodlines, quality, and show quality. These people usually seek the perfect betta. Quantity is never an issue, they may raise just a few, or a dozen to be groomed for perfection. These people have terrific strains,,,,,,usually. If you go to aquabid dot com you can see some examples of these listed for sale.

The second kind of breeder is less common in America, a few people try but are not focused or organized enough in the beginning and get distracted, discouraged, and ultimately give up. This is the breeder who sees dollar signs. Riches.

A third type of breeder might be the one that just likes to see fish multiply, has read this or that about bettas and has a go at putting a pair or two together to see what happens. I would venture a guess and say that most fail, usually for the simplest of reasons, whether it be lack of food for the fry, lack of water quality for the fry,,or just lack of ability in getting a pair to successfully lay eggs. Some,,do succeed.

But back to your question. How many. When you use the store bought bettas that are available today, and I am talking about the standard imported variety, you should be able to have 100 to 200 hatch. It can be considerably less,,,or in some cases considerably more. My record was 880 babies hatched from one female.

Lets go with the 100 hatched babies. And by hatched, let's assume we are talking about after the initial one or two day mortalities,,post parents removed, and eating baby brine shrimp.

My bettas always had a roughly 50/50 split of male and females. I think any deviation from this is just a chance result of losing alot of fry and being left with what is left over. But give nature a chance and you will be near 50-50.

So right away out of a hundred fry you have 50 males. Ten or so of these males will not grow the long fins that you see in the store tanks. They have fins that are more of the natural length,,short. They may be colorful, they may look nice, but they will be short. This leaves you with 40 or so prospective sellable males. Out of this 40 you can count on around 5 or 6,,possibly more, that just never develop nice colors. They stay grayish, or very dark, certainly not the lovely fish you see in stores.

So out of a hundred you may get 35 or if you are lucky 40 really nice sellable males. You will have an excess of females, they are easy to sell.

Now, before I get tossed for throwing out these low numbers, remember, we are talking about the standard store bought import. These are mutts. They are mass produced in the far east, they breed kazillions of them over there, they throw away bunches and the ones you see in the stores are what's left. This type of breeding is dirty business. Cheap labor, long laborous days, and nothing but the fish are tended to day after day after day. These people do not go to the mall, they do not go to the movies, they don't hang out with their friends downtown,,none of that.

I have seen film of these places and one that stands out was a breeding facility where the fish were being raised in what looked like small liquor bottles. The entire floor was covered in them, side by side, the workers were actually walking across the tops of the bottles there were so many.

They can spot bad fish early on and these are disposed of, only the future sellable ones are kept.

If a serious breeder here in the USA could take a hobbyist strain and go to work then there would be a considerable less demand for these fish.

I banked on 50-75 males from my broodstock per spawn. I spawned from 10-12 pairs at a time, I usally raised out 500-700 males twice per summer. I raised mine in groups in 55 gallon tanks, they were raised together. These were NOT show fish. They would not win any ribbons. But they were healty, locally raised, pretty fish. And stores stopped buying from the wholesalers at the time. I sold fancy guppys, angelfish, and bettas, and a few varieties of tetras and barbs at the time. All were bred by myself.

You could breed yours and count on 30-40 males. You could certainly get SOMETHING for them if you tried, but at the very least you could have a 20 gallon tank in your living room with a whole group of male bettas together. A nice sight, and a nice prize for your effort.

By the way, people have asked me about keeping males together. It can be done. If they are raised together it is easy. Once a fish has been isolated and kept alone it becomes much more aggressive. Domestic bettas are not that aggressive. Also, when you have any aggressive fish, and you put a dense population of them together, it reduces the aggression by leaps and bounds. A couple of examples of this might be nippy fish like tiger barbs, or an extreme example like the mbunas of africa. Both of these do superb in large groups while keeping less than half a dozen usually results in fighting or death.

Hope all of this helps.
Bill
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Old 08-01-2008, 05:41 AM   #8
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Bill,
It sounds like you were/are a wonderful breeder of these beautiful fish. Why did you stop? I mean, it does sound like an awful lot of work, which is why I didn't get into it...I knew my limits and what I had time for in my life and breeding bettas was not one of them and I didn't want to do the species a disservice by "just trying it". It does sound like our country needs more breeders of bettas like you to get it out of the hands you were describing. Have you ever thought about teaching somekind of workshop for people in our country who might be seriously interested in learning how to breed bettas the correct way instead of buying from mass breeders from the far east?
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Old 08-01-2008, 06:46 AM   #9
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Hi.

At the time that I was doing alot of breeding I spent alot of time doing public speaking for fish clubs. The betta breeding that I did was actually a side line to add to the other fish I was selling. At that time I was selling directly to stores, there were soooo many more than there are nowadays.

I began to do mass production of fish to sell to the big farms in Tampa which didn't leave room for small production to stores, so the bettas kind of fell to the wayside. And then life changes and you do different things.

I eventually had my own retail establishment for two years or so.

I am working on getting a publishing thing together so I can sell books and/or DVDs,,I have so much material done already, it is just a matter of getting focused enough to put things together.

People who know me though, know that I am vehemently against sending our industry overseas to countries that hate us. It makes no sense no matter how you spin it. And the tropical fish industry is no exception. Florida once boasted tropical fish as it's second biggest export and there was once nothing as healthy as a Florida farm bred tropical fish. Out of some 400 farms here in Florida there are only around 150 left and most of these do not even breed anymore, they import in far eastern fish. Most of the farmers are selling out to land developers and as in alot of other industries we are seeing the quality of the product diminish and watching American dollars go to countries that would like to see you and your family dead.

I have outlined in talks before how any small group of people in a given area can breed and supply stores with most of the common bread and butter fish, effectively cutting off a need for asian fish. If this is done in even a fraction of the whole country they take notice. They are money mongers and when there is a drop in sales of their fish over there they take notice. When I was breeding neon tetras even on a small scale I was contacted more than once by asian importers to see if I was going to be a threat to their business.

I tend to get on a soapbox, but this is a serious issue in this country, many of us have children and the way things are going the companies and businesses they will be working for will be run by our enemies, and our enemies will be signing their paychecks,,,does that sound right?

Bill
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Old 08-01-2008, 06:58 AM   #10
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I completely agree with you...too many of our businesses are going oversees, not just in the fish industry...take the furniture business in my neck of the woods and the textile industry as well. So, I can understand why you tend to get on a soapbox about it. But, we need more people like you in OUR country who are willing to show the hobbyist how to do things the correct way and possibly turn things around and get some of these fish being bred correctly again in the US.
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