breeding up to 6th generations??

[rubysoho]

okay, there is a discussion on another forum about breeding...and by discussion I mean one other person and myself

Anyway, I was just curious why it is okay to breed siblings of fish. To me it just doesn't make any sense. Inbreeding is inbreeding and I thought it was the same for all creatures. Wouldn't this make the genepool smaller and bad traits are more likely to appear?

PS- we are talking about bettas being bred up to 6 generations...just to give you an idea of the type of fish.

[Billsgate]

I don't speak out of experience, but the guy at the [acronym:184a954242="Local Fish Store"]lfs[/acronym:184a954242] (who is quite knowledgeable), told me that you can only start seeing defects in some fry after 20 generations or so. So I'm guessing that 6 generations is still okey.

But I do agree that is definetly not beneficial to your line of breeding when you keep inbreeding. Fresh genes should be 'inserted' at some points. And offcourse it sounds like logic that it is not healthy to inbreed.

[acronym:184a954242="Hope this helps (or) Happy to help"]HTH[/acronym:184a954242]!

[Jaxom_Ruatha]

Also the ones that develop "bad traits" aren't likely to survive or be used for breeding anyways.

[Toirtis]

OK, the difference here is a 'can you get away with it' vs. 'is it a good idea' issue. Yes, many fish fail to outwardly show genetic problems even after multiple generations of inbreeding/linebreeding, but just because you can get away with it does not mean that you should. Bloodlines, so long as they are within the same subspecies and locale, should always be as widely diversified as possible. What is more, there is a good chance that any CB fish you get from your [acronym:b8f3378b33="Local Fish Store"]LFS[/acronym:b8f3378b33] is already the result of multiple generations of inbreeding at the fish-farm where it was produced...and believe you me, most people are stunned when they compare some quality F0 or F1 specimens to the typical fish shop fare.

[BASSNMAN]

Many of the color variations available are the product of inbreeding. A particular trait or color pattern is selected and bred for. I have no idea how many generations are needed. I do know that many dog breeds were inbred for show traits and developed races of idiots. Some breeds were nearly ruined. One of the results are hip problems .

[frog girl]

Apparently it depends on the species whether or not inbreeding creates serious problems. California sea lions where hunted down to tens of animals & have recovered nicely with no apparent ill effects & pigeon racers routinely inbreed to try & get better lines. I think the difference is that with both the sea lions & pigeons if they don't cut the mustard they either die or are kulled from the flock. So natural selection takes care of inbreeding defects in many cases.

With cheetahs though their gene pool got so small that they now have a lot of trouble with fertility. If you save every individual from a breeding experiment & don't let the weaker ones with defects die out inbreeding depression can occur readily but some species seem to be more susceptible than others. The ideal scenario if you where a breeder would be to create a cool color variant or something with selective breeding & then outbreed it to an [acronym:7b721ae97f="Fish only"]FO[/acronym:7b721ae97f] or F1. If the trait wasn't recessive then you would get hybrid vigor from the fish & beautiful colors.

If you just want vigorous healthy fish with normal behavior & coloration it is best to do frequent outcrossings. This is part of why zoos trade animals around. I am sure fish farms are a bad deal if they don't keep track of their lines at all.

Speaking of which thatfishstore.com claims to have first generation (F1) rainbows which I have been looking at. Anyone have experience with them??

[rubysoho]

awesome, thanks so much everyone