Bristle Nose Breeding, Gonna try but have questions

[fish_4_all]

There is a serious lack of good specimens of the Bristle nose, BN, and the Albino Bristle Nose, ABN in my area so I think I will try to breed them.

First, and I guess most important, will they interbreed since it seems most of the species is too hard to differentiate anyway. That is except for the Albinos which I assume are easy to tell the difference.

Second, I only have room to set up 10 gallon tanks. I have 3 set up now. 1 is for my C. Trilineatus. The other 2, well they are there with very happy fish. 1 has 3 Skunk Botia Loaches in it and if anyone questions how hardy they are, I can tell you they have been in unheated tank for 2 months and doing great. How may tank do I need to dedicate to 2 mated pairs with smaller tanks for the eggs and fry?

Third, does it have to be driftwood or can it simply be a cave, a pot or something to for them to hide and lay eggs in? Also, it seems that the driftwood or bogwood is very important for nutritional reasons, will any driftwood work or does it have to be a specific type?

I guess I could set up my 55, or a 20 gallon tall but I think my wife would move out and leave me with my fish. I know it would work better for a 2 mated pair at 4 inches each so I may just have to do it.

[TCTFish]

Animals will interbreed. Best way to avoid this is to get fish from different sources. Most likely you'll end up with an unrelated pair. If you start off with adults, try one male with three females. Only need one male. Pairs would be suitable for the 10 gallon tanks, but you may produce more spawns with several females to one male. Just a thought

You should always go by what is recommended for breeding whatever species you want to breed. You might as well have driftwood for the sake of digestion. Just make sure the driftwood sinks and isn't coated. Coated wood could inhibit the fungal growth they eat. It's also best to get wood from pet stores rather than from outside.

Another note...unheated tanks can cause a fluctuation in temperature which can be very stressful for fish and make them ill. Regardless what temps a fish can adapt to, it should always be stable. Fish that require heat such as the plecos you want to breed, should have heaters set at the appropriate breeding temp. Sometimes the rate of success in breeding is determined by the temperature.

You may do better with small breeder tanks...one pair per with no other fish. This will help lower risk of cannibalism on eggs and eliminate competition between the males. If you do a male to three female group, then of course the breeder tank would need to be bigger. Fry are better off hatching and growing in the water the eggs are laid in. Adults can handle moves from one tank to another much better than fry if they need to be moved. If this is not an option, then try to have the fry grow in the same water they hatch in. This could help lower mortality rate (the percentage of eggs and fry that don't survive).

I don't know details of breeding bushynoses, but what I've mentioned is general of most fish.

Have fun and good luck.

[fish_4_all]

I guess what i wanted to ask was will the BN and the ABN actually interbreed? I don't want to have half and half babies. I plan to keep them seperate but if I set up a 55, they will have a community tank and will not be seperated if they won't cross breed.

That's what I wanted to know, will they cross breed! I know swords and platies will and the babies are not the prettiest. I want true plecos, not crossbreeds.

I would never intentionally cross breed them.

BTW, on the issue of a constant temperature, how do you keep the temperature constant with HOB filters? I never had a problem in winter with the undergravels but this winter it has been hard to keep the temperature steady. It only moves from 74-80. Is that enough to cause the problems you are refering to?

[TCTFish]

The BN and the ABN are the exact same species. They will cross breed. The albino is just a genetically modified form of the normal coloring through selective breeding to bring out the recessive albino gene. If they did cross breed, the only thing that would happen is that the babies would carry a stronger recessive albino gene and their babies are more likely to come out a certain percentage of normals and the rest albino. The next generation after that would have a higher number of albinos being born. It's not at all like crossing a platy with a swordtail. Those are different species from each other. Again, the BN and the ABN are the exact same species.

You keep a steady temp with a heater. Filters have nothing to do with heating a tank. Such a fluctuation that you described can certainly throw a fish into shock...especially if it's a constant up and down fluctuation.

I live in Southern California. Been here for almost 14 years. I lived in NJ for 22 years. Back there it is common for people to keep the stronger larger species of plecos in ponds. Back there, the winters freeze pond, yet these tropical fish survive the winter rest. Their metabolisms slow and they kind of go into a hibernative state and sleep through the cold.

Here, in sunny Southern California where ponds rarely ever freeze, most plecos die through the winter if kept in the ponds. I always wondered why. Then one day it finally made sense. The winters here in So. Cal temps fluctuate from warm during the day to cold at night...sometimes the temp difference can be as great as 10 or more degrees. This will have an effect on ponds that are less than 3 feet deep. These larger stronger species of Plecos can withstand a constant temp whether warm or cold, but the moment it begins to fluctuate, it puts stress on the fish. It goes into a hibernative state at night yet woken up the next day. Does it again for a few months. Before winter is over, the pleco is dead. Back East, though the winters are cold, there is very little difference between day and night time temps. Therefore the animal is allowed to continue it's rest and wake up when winter is over and the water begins to warm up instead of its metabolism going into a rollercoaster ride throughout the winter season. That is not healthy for anything...including us.

I'm going to be outright in my opinion about undergravel filters. They are death traps. Everything can be going smoothly for even a couple of years then all of a sudden, the fish start to get sick. UGFs pull waste under the grate and is very difficult to remove most of it, even through constant gravel vaccing, it still continues to build nitrates. Nitrates will progress any existing diseases and parasite populations and possibly create disease causing bacteria. You'd be much better off with the HOB by itself than having a UGF with or without a HOB. I am not a fan of UGFs at all. You could get a canister filter and run the outtakes of the powerheads on the UGFs and connect them to the canister, but then you're getting into expenses that really aren't neccessary. A big suggestion...get rid of the UGF. Save yourself from future headaches.

[fish_4_all]

I got rid of the UGF's a couple months ago. Much less headache and much healthier fish. WIll never use them again.

I have heaters in two of the tanks and the temperature still fluctuates, at times down to 76 even 74. I don't understand why the fluctuations except, maybe the brand of heater. It is 15 watts, best for a 10 gallon but they don't do the job. It might be because of the house temperature dropping because it is kept at 68 at night and 76 during the day. It is just confusing why the temperature would drop like that with a proper heater.

Thanks for the help, and enforcing the idea I will never use UGF's again.

[Jchillin]

If it was info on bristlenoses, you could have checked here:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/profiles/6_10_en.html

I am currently trying to get a spawn from a mated pair of albino's. There are a couple of other members who have successfully bred them. Really great pleco in my experience.

There is an issue with dwarfism with the recessive gene. Sometimes we get a stunted growth out of either one (ABN or BN). I have one such stunted growth BN in my tank now.

[TCTFish]

Basic heating guide is 3 watts per gallon. So 15 watts is only half of what you should have for a ten gallon. The heater is working OT and can burn out prematurely.

I really like the ViaAqua Titanium heaters that have the temp controls on the outside. The heating unit is inside the tank, but the thermostat mounts to the wall No more sticking your hands in, snaking through the rock work scraping arms or knocking things over to get to the controls LOL!! I love 'em and they are reliable. Worth every penny.

[TCTFish]

Dwarfism in these plecos is what you'd call a congenital defect. It is very common for deformities or oddities to develop from the inbreeding involved that first starts the strains of recessive traits. This continues to carry on until the strain is 'perfected' (undesireable traits weeded out by not breeding the ones that have these traits). These deformities sometimes are desireable and a new strain created by breeding siblings with each other showing these traits to strenghten the recessive gene responsible for the trait. Once a strain starts to breed true, they are then outbred to more distant relatives to help keep the trait strong, but undesireable traits toned down. At this point in time, there's been enough generations where you can get unrelated individuals, however, inbreeding is still much a common practice among large scale breeders. So oddities still pop up from time to time.

I like the little red and black bushies. They're pretty cool looking.

[fish_4_all]

Sorry, I believe the heaters are 50 watt. Gonna replace one with a new one I have and see if it works better. Might be a problem with the suposedly submersible heaters that aren't really submersible. Will find out in the next few days after switching the heater.

As for the plecos, I simply want one that will that is easy to breed and doesn't require a 200 gallon tank to accomodate it at adult. As for genetic manipualtion, if I get a succesful second spawn and fair survival rate, I will trade straight accros for genetic diversity. I like anomilies, they are fun to watch and even more fun to see how they act. I like the BN but really like the ABN but my LFS told me that it will likely be a couple months before they can even order them. Guess I will go with the Bn for now and maybe I will get a couple albinos out of the first couple spawns, if I get them to spawn.

[webmoose]

Best of luck with your spawn

Moose