Fry not growing

[HelenP]

Hello,

I am new here so here goes!..

My fish laid eggs about a month ago and I moved some of them to a separate tank just to see if they developed. When they did I got over excited! I ended up with about 40 tiny little fry. We gradually moved them into a net in the main tank so that the water was getting filtered but they were safe from the adults.

Since then I have fed them on Liquifry1 for the first couple of weeks and moved on to Liquifry 3. They have doubled in size since we first moved them but now they have completely stopped growing. What am I doing wrong? Is the water too cold? I have lost about half of them now...I presume the bigger fry have eaten the little/dead fry because they have just completely vanished.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I do not want to give up on them yet!

Thanks!

 

[thebluespirit]

What species are they?

I've only ever raised guppy fry personally but the main things i found were:
1. Keep water quality pristine
2. Clean the net, tank or trap they are in. You'll notice fuzzy bits on the net in particular. I believe thats fungus and you don't want that
3. Feed small amounts often
4. Fish have growth spurts. It may seem like they're not growing but that can change in a day or 2

 

[Andy Sager]

Hello,

I am new here so here goes!..

My fish laid eggs about a month ago and I moved some of them to a separate tank just to see if they developed. When they did I got over excited! I ended up with about 40 tiny little fry. We gradually moved them into a net in the main tank so that the water was getting filtered but they were safe from the adults.

Since then I have fed them on Liquifry1 for the first couple of weeks and moved on to Liquifry 3. They have doubled in size since we first moved them but now they have completely stopped growing. What am I doing wrong? Is the water too cold? I have lost about half of them now...I presume the bigger fry have eaten the little/dead fry because they have just completely vanished.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I do not want to give up on them yet!

Thanks!

A couple of questions:
#1: What kind of fish are you talking about? (This determins what the "norm" is.)
#2: What are the water parameters in this fry tank? (Water quality is the biggest killer of fish fry.)

#3: How big is the fry tank? (You might have too many fish in the tank for proper growth.)

#4: At 4 weeks old, they might need to be on a better diet for growth. ( Refer back to question #1)


This should get the conversation going in the right direction to help

 

[HelenP]

A couple of questions:
#1: What kind of fish are you talking about? (This determins what the "norm" is.)
#2: What are the water parameters in this fry tank? (Water quality is the biggest killer of fish fry.)

#3: How big is the fry tank? (You might have too many fish in the tank for proper growth.)

#4: At 4 weeks old, they might need to be on a better diet for growth. ( Refer back to question #1)


This should get the conversation going in the right direction to help

Thanks for getting back to, in answer to your questions:
#1: I bought adult fish as Orandas but having looked up what an Oranda looks like I am not sure because they dont have the growth on their heads that look like raspberries!

#2: I check the water with a tester that I use to test the main tank and it all comes back clear and within the recommend levels.

#3: I have now moved the fry into their own separate tank that is probably about 1ft x 1/2ft, there are only about 11 fry left now though :-( I moved them out of the net in the main tank because the net was going green and although I was removing as much food as I could there was still a gradual build up of wasted food at the bottom of the net.

#4: They are getting quite old now but when I have compared them to pictures of fry on the internet they are still only around the size of 1 week old fry!

I have done a bit of research today and people seem to be recommending feeding them 4-6 times a day because they may be suffering from malnutrition? We only feed them 3 times a day.

Also I do not have a filter in their tank at the moment because I do not know what to use and I do not want to spend any money on one as at this rate they aren't going to survive! I have a small spare filter but I do not know if this is safe to use with them...it isn't a very strong one so doesn't move the water around that much but how would I stop the fish going into the sponge?

Any suggestions would be great! It is so sad to see them suffering!

Thanks

 

[Andy Sager]

Thanks for getting back to, in answer to your questions:
#1: I bought adult fish as Orandas but having looked up what an Oranda looks like I am not sure because they dont have the growth on their heads that look like raspberries!

#2: I check the water with a tester that I use to test the main tank and it all comes back clear and within the recommend levels.

#3: I have now moved the fry into their own separate tank that is probably about 1ft x 1/2ft, there are only about 11 fry left now though :-( I moved them out of the net in the main tank because the net was going green and although I was removing as much food as I could there was still a gradual build up of wasted food at the bottom of the net.

#4: They are getting quite old now but when I have compared them to pictures of fry on the internet they are still only around the size of 1 week old fry!

I have done a bit of research today and people seem to be recommending feeding them 4-6 times a day because they may be suffering from malnutrition? We only feed them 3 times a day.

Also I do not have a filter in their tank at the moment because I do not know what to use and I do not want to spend any money on one as at this rate they aren't going to survive! I have a small spare filter but I do not know if this is safe to use with them...it isn't a very strong one so doesn't move the water around that much but how would I stop the fish going into the sponge?

Any suggestions would be great! It is so sad to see them suffering!

Thanks

Okay, so now we know we are dealing with Goldfish That's a help.

With goldfish and goldfish fry, they need a good continual source of food and so the comment to feed more often is correct. This could have something to do with their reduced growth.
My next question would be , How often are you doing water changes? The more often you do them with goldfish ( and most any fish) the better the fish will grow.
Being in a 12" x 6" tank is not really condusive for the fish to grow. There also may be some tank stunting involved here however, since you are not sure exactly what kind of goldfish you have, you mave have created a generation that are genetically predisposed to dwarfism because of the pairing. ( But let's leave that for the back burner.)

As for filtering, the best type of filters, by far, to use with fish fry are sponge filters. Not the sponges you put on a HOB filter but an air driven sponge filter. If you are unfamiliar with this type, look up online " Lee's Sponge Filter" or on Ebay, just search "Sponge Filter" and a variety of sponge filters out of the Far East should come up. There are many sizes (and deals on Ebay) so you want to make sure you are using the right sized filter. (For this small amount of fish, you will only need to be using the smallest ones.) The more fry you have, the larger the sponge should be or even using multiple sponges in the tank.

I hope this helps

 

[HelenP]

Hello

Great thanks for that, I will try and sort out a filter tomorrow, I have just tried feeding them with very small bits of normal fish flakes and they seemed to really like that.

However, there are a couple of them that are acting very strangely, they don't move much then when they do it is very erratic and they end up on their side before going back upright again...I am guessing these particular little guys have no hope of survival?!

Thanks!

 

[HelenP]

Tank for fry

Hello

I have one of the original fry left and he is not looing good.

Since then they have produced another batch of eggs, I have now taken some eggs out and put them in a separate tank with a filter.

I have tried to attach a picture of it, if you can see it please let me know if there is anything else I need to add to the tank?

The eggs are nearly at hatching point and I am hoping they will be more successful than last time!

I am planning on changing about 20% of the water every day and feed them 4-6 times a day, is that right?!

If the picture doesn't work can someone tell me how I can add a picture!

Thanks

 

[Andy Sager]

Hello

I have one of the original fry left and he is not looing good.

Since then they have produced another batch of eggs, I have now taken some eggs out and put them in a separate tank with a filter.

I have tried to attach a picture of it, if you can see it please let me know if there is anything else I need to add to the tank?

The eggs are nearly at hatching point and I am hoping they will be more successful than last time!

I am planning on changing about 20% of the water every day and feed them 4-6 times a day, is that right?!

If the picture doesn't work can someone tell me how I can add a picture!

Thanks

The first thing I would change is the filter. HOB filters are not good for fry tanks. I'd strongly suggest, STRONGLY suggest, a sponge filter over any other type of filter for raising fish fry. It eliminates almost all filter related issues with fry.

The rest of the plan sounds good. Just make sure that the water you are adding back, for the water change, is the same PH and Temp as what you are taking out. First foods should be infusoria so make sure you have that culture starting to grow.

Good luck with this batch

 

[HelenP]

The first thing I would change is the filter. HOB filters are not good for fry tanks. I'd strongly suggest, STRONGLY suggest, a sponge filter over any other type of filter for raising fish fry. It eliminates almost all filter related issues with fry.

The rest of the plan sounds good. Just make sure that the water you are adding back, for the water change, is the same PH and Temp as what you are taking out. First foods should be infusoria so make sure you have that culture starting to grow.

Good luck with this batch

The filter seems to be okay at the moment, I researched it and have covered the suction end in tights! So the fish cannot be sucked up into it. Then I have put a net underneath the flow of water so that it stops the strong flow of water. The filter is working fine and the babies seem to be completely fine!

I have been feeding them with liquifry1, they really go for it! I have realised that I can see if they have been eating or not because they are practically transparent I can see if their stomachs are full!!?!?

I'm paranoid that they are not going to grow, but by the amount that they are eating I would have thought they are constantly growing so fingers crossed!

Going to try and order some baby brine shrimp as I have been told that these are good for them when they are a bit older?

Thanks

 

[BBradbury]

Feeding Fry

Hello,

I am new here so here goes!..

My fish laid eggs about a month ago and I moved some of them to a separate tank just to see if they developed. When they did I got over excited! I ended up with about 40 tiny little fry. We gradually moved them into a net in the main tank so that the water was getting filtered but they were safe from the adults.

Since then I have fed them on Liquifry1 for the first couple of weeks and moved on to Liquifry 3. They have doubled in size since we first moved them but now they have completely stopped growing. What am I doing wrong? Is the water too cold? I have lost about half of them now...I presume the bigger fry have eaten the little/dead fry because they have just completely vanished.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I do not want to give up on them yet!

Thanks!

Hello Helen...

I've never moved my pregnant females, so the fry stay in the same tank with all the adult fish. Moving is too stressful for the fish and me too. What I do, is provide thick plants on the surface of the tank. When fish are born, livebearers anyway, naturally swim to the surface to breathe. You need thick cover on the surface and Anacharis and Pennywort are the best.

When I see fry in the tank, I start feeding all my fish a little more and a little more often. From what I've seen, well fed adult fish show little or no interest in the fry. Food is almost entirely frozen. It's very good for all the fish and contains nothing, but the frozen animal and water, no additives. I just chop up the cubes and drop them into the tank. I feed a variety like frozen brine shrimp, mysis shrimp, bloodworms, beef heart, plankton and krill. I also feed a little minced garlic. It's a great vitamin source and a natural antibiotic. No, it won't make the tank water smell.

Just a couple of thoughts.

B

 

[Andy Sager]

Hello Helen...

I've never moved my pregnant females, so the fry stay in the same tank with all the adult fish. Moving is too stressful for the fish and me too. What I do, is provide thick plants on the surface of the tank. When fish are born, livebearers anyway, naturally swim to the surface to breathe. You need thick cover on the surface and Anacharis and Pennywort are the best.

When I see fry in the tank, I start feeding all my fish a little more and a little more often. From what I've seen, well fed adult fish show little or no interest in the fry. Food is almost entirely frozen. It's very good for all the fish and contains nothing, but the frozen animal and water, no additives. I just chop up the cubes and drop them into the tank. I feed a variety like frozen brine shrimp, mysis shrimp, bloodworms, beef heart, plankton and krill. I also feed a little minced garlic. It's a great vitamin source and a natural antibiotic. No, it won't make the tank water smell.

Just a couple of thoughts.

B

B Bradbury, these are goldfish not livebearers so they need to be treated very differently. Your advice is well put for livebearers but really is not accurate for egglayers. #1, Goldfish are never pregnant as they are egg layers #2, Goldfish are known to eat their eggs if the breeders are kept with the eggs so removing them after spawning is highly recommended #3, goldfish fry need about a week's worth of feeding just to get to the size of a newly born Guppy so the foods you mentioned would not be a good first food source. As these fry are very small, they need smaller foods such as infusoria cultures, etc so that they can feed once they become free swimming. They will be hanging closer to the bottom of the tank as well opposed to Livebearers which tend to stay at the surface more. The digestive system of goldfish is also very different from livebearers so they need to be fed as often as every 2 hours or so so that they can grow. These are just a few of the differences.

I don't mean to criticize but if Helen were to follow your advice, she'd lose her spawn for sure. It would better help if you could advise for the specific fish in question not just a generalized "formula" as different fish fry have different needs. There is no "one size fits all" method for raising all fish fry (or even spawning them )


Hope this helps

 

[Andy Sager]

The filter seems to be okay at the moment, I researched it and have covered the suction end in tights! So the fish cannot be sucked up into it. Then I have put a net underneath the flow of water so that it stops the strong flow of water. The filter is working fine and the babies seem to be completely fine!

I have been feeding them with liquifry1, they really go for it! I have realised that I can see if they have been eating or not because they are practically transparent I can see if their stomachs are full!!?!?

I'm paranoid that they are not going to grow, but by the amount that they are eating I would have thought they are constantly growing so fingers crossed!

Going to try and order some baby brine shrimp as I have been told that these are good for them when they are a bit older?

Thanks

Helen, there's a couple of issues with your HOB filter that I would like to expand on.
#1, In a conversation I had with the manufacturer of Hagen HOB filters many years ago, I discussed with him the use of restrictive methods on the intake to accomodate certain types of fish. His reply was " By restricting the incoming flow of water, you can cause the motor to overheat and distort or melt the shaft section of the filter box leading to possible leaks or motor malfuntions." Since that time, I have always advised against using anything other than the sponge attactments that are made for the particular filter to be used. These sponges are designed to catch larger particles and detritus to aid in maximizing the longevity of the filter cartridges. They are not however, of the same material that a sponge filter for biological means of filtration so they can trap a fish fry in them.
#2, since you are dealing with a fish that does not have a digestive system similar to most all other fish, by making the fry swim in a current produced by the HOB, you are increasing the need for more feedings so that your fry are consuming enough nutrition to counter the energy than they are using to swim and leaving enough nutrition to help them grow. This is another reason why air operated sponge filters are a better choice. Their flow can be regulated so that the fry use more energy to grow then to fight the current.

Obviously, it's your choice. Just wanted to explain why I made the suggestions I did I have successfully raised many goldfish so I speak from experience.

Keep us posted