GBR Spawn

[smallfry53]

I got home from work today, and one of my pairs of GBR were protecting one corner of the tank, and cleaning a piece of slate in that corner. I knew what that meant, and probably a half hour later I looked over and the spawn was on. They were taking turns making passes at the slate, and it seemed the other fish knew to stay away, but if one did wander near them they were chasing them away. I thought everything was going well, and was hopeful (even though from reading on here my tds is probably too high to get fertile eggs; around 225ppm).

Then things turned for the worse.... It seemed like as soon as the pair was done with the spawn my other pair of GBR were relentlessly after those eggs. The spawning pair gave it their all to keep them away, but were unsuccessful. Within an hour all the eggs were gone...

I was thinking maybe if I made some "caves" it would make it easier for the pair to defend the eggs. I've also been planning on setting up a 20long I have and move the other pair to that tank. I had other plans for it, but I really didn't like the fighting. I thought the 29g would be big enough for two pair, but apparently not while spawning...

It was kind of a disappointing result, however it was really exciting seeing the pair spawning first hand, and they at least seem like they could be good parents in the right circumstances. I took a video for anybody that's interested...

 

[coralbandit]

Congrats on the spawn..
Rams are tough to breed and raise...
I pull eggs from the parents as most even in their own tank go psycho and eat their own fry eventually..
Sometimes I let them hatch out with parents and then move parents or steal[syphon] fry...
Some rams can breed in regular tap and even the soft water ones may be ok at 200TDS?
I try to use water under 100TDS for my breeding...
If the pair is in good condition they could breed again as soon as 7-14 more days...

 

[smallfry53]

Thanks coralbandit. I'm not overly worried about successfully raising fry. It would be neat, but I've never breed fish before, and my wife would kill me if all the sudden I had a bunch of grow out tanks and whatnot. lol My biggest concern was the aggression between the two pair. I did not anticipate the other pair being so set on eating the eggs. It seemed weird... I expected a little chasing/nipping but they were really going round and round for at least a half hr and I'd rather not have that stressful situation again, as I'm assuming they will spawn again in the next week-month?? Fortunately everybody appears to have made it out without any visible injuries, but I don't want to try that again... I started setting up my other tank (that was what I was planning on doing last night anyway) and will move one pair in that tank in a few days-week. That should have the added benefit of giving that pair a better chance at raising fry. I know if I want any serious chance at raising them I'd need to pull the eggs/wigglers but I want to see what the pair will do on their own. It should be interesting.

If I remember correctly my tap is around 170? tds. I think dosing ferts raises my tds to 220-240ish... I just got the meter a few weeks ago and still learning. Maybe if I was really trying to raise a batch I could stop dosing the ferts for a bit. Like I said, I'm really not prepared to raise fry anyway, so I'm not too worried about it, but it is exciting to watch. It would be cool to see if the pair could raise fry on their own. We shall see...

 

[smallfry53]

Well the pair looked like they were ready to spawn again when I got home from work. You were spot on coralbandit (11 days since the last spawn). I saw that they were getting ready to spawn, so I moved the other pair of GBR to my 20 long. I thought the other pair looked to be closer to spawning than this pair, so it wouldn't surprise me if they also spawned in the next couple days. I'm not sure if moving them into the other tank might disrupt things though.

So far the they seem to be protecting the eggs well. I'm excited to see how well the pair does without having the other pair in the tank. I'm guessing at some point the parents or other fish in the tank will eat the eggs/fry though. That makes it tempting to take the eggs from the parents to try to raise some fry.... lol

 

[smallfry53]

The female is chasing the male from the piece of slate they spawn on now. I wonder if he started eating the eggs....

 

[smallfry53]

Well.... now the male is taking his turn at guarding the eggs... So I'm not really sure why the female was chasing the male away. I guess we'll see if there are still eggs tomorrow.

 

[coralbandit]

They are usually bad parents IMO the first couple[10 !] spawns..
The chasing is normal .In some of my breeding tanks the female hides from the male 50% of the time eggs or not..With eggs the 'argument' over who watches the eggs can go on and on.. Most of the time the male takes the lead and the female is driven off.
The pair you moved may surprise you and just lay eggs since you moved them..Make sure they have a place to deposit their eggs.
I have one pair with fry since Jan.3 .Not a record but possibly a record number of fry as they [the ONE pair ]has not eaten any fry yet..If I find room I am going to move the parents out so I can raise the fry..I have had 5 sets of fry eaten this season from pairs I left them with.

 

[smallfry53]

I have a few pieces of slate in the tank I moved the other pair to. The male actually went right to a piece in the same corner they stayed in most of the time in the other tank. (Back right corner) That female has a big bright pink/purple belly, so it wouldn't surprise me if they spawn in the next day or two.

I looked an hour or so after the female was chasing the male away, and the male was guarding the eggs and the female was taking a break. Then she came back and they were both guarding the eggs. I know it's only the second spawn, but both times has been in the evening (around 7pm). Is that a coincidence or do they always spawn in the evening?

 

[coralbandit]

Most fish spawn at dusk or dawn IMO. I find my eggs usually in the am.. I look through all possible tanks first thing in am.. Some of the rams I will let raise the EGGS ,but as soon as they turn to wigglers I get them out [I am bandit] .. That way I need no MB in the tank with eggs as they have already hatched ! It all comes down to timing...
On a different sp. livebearers often birth dusk or dawn to give fry a better chance of escape/camouflage survival.

 

[smallfry53]

Welp the eggs are gone... I checked before work, and the female was still in the corner where she laid the eggs, but it was dark so I couldn't see if they were still there. I'm guessing they were though. They made it probably at least 12 hours this time, when they only made it about 12 minutes last time... lol Progress. TDS is about 205-210, so maybe the eggs weren't fertile so they ate them? I suppose it could be a number of things though. After I do a pwc TDS is 180ish, so maybe I'll try to get a pwc in before they spawn next time and maybe will have a little bit better results. I was planning on doing pwcs last night, but didn't want to disturb them. The 20g seems to stay around 180-185 TDS. Maybe the pair in that tank will have better luck if they ever spawn.

 

[smallfry53]

I had the pair in my 20g spawn on Sunday for the first time. After about 24hrs I noticed there were about 10-12 eggs that weren't fertile. After about 40 hours most of the eggs were covered in fungus, and they were all gone after about 48 hours.... Aren't the parents supposed to remove the eggs that haven't been fertilized to keep the eggs from being covered in fungus?
I thought most of them looked good, but maybe the tds is just too high (195ish).

I found it interesting with this pair that after they were done spawning the male chased away the female, then she had nothing to do with the eggs. It was only the male that stayed with them, the other pair has taken turns.

 

[coralbandit]

Rams are funny..sometimes males keep the female away sometimes they change their mind..
They progress with this as they keep breeding..
Most of my rams do not remove bad eggs if I leave them with the parents.
Rather the parents will move the wigglers to a safe /bacteria free area away from the bad eggs , usually a corner of tank..
High TDS will keep eggs from becoming fertilized. I have had rams spawn in my tap at 350 TDS but not all and not always successfully.
I adjust my TDS to under 100 in general for my rams.
Good luck and keep trying...It took me years to work out a 'system' with these guys and girls...

 

[smallfry53]

The pair in my 29g decided to spawn right up front this time....

 

[smallfry53]

I never thought these guys would spawn every 10-11 days. I had a pair of bolivians and they only spawned 2-3 times in the 3+ years I had them.

 

[coralbandit]

You have made them happy...
Those are nice looking rams ...

 

[smallfry53]

Thanks.

I'm guessing the bolivians maybe weren't a compatible pair. I've definitely got better on pwcs though. That's probably a big part of it. I used to only do 30-40% every 7-10 days. Now I do around 50% every 5-6 days.

 

[coralbandit]

They really do like clean water..
What is you water parameters like ph/gh/kh ? Do you test for TDS .
You using just tap?

 

[smallfry53]

I am just using tap right now. After reading about TDS both on here and other places I did get a TDS meter a month or so ago. I'm still trying to figure it all out though. My tap seems to be around 170-180 ppm. My tanks have been around 190 ppm after pwcs and 205-210 before. I got an api gh/kh test kit for christmas (I think that's when you know you're a fish nerd lol). Honestly I have only checked it once. If I remember correctly gh was 4 and kh was 12? or the other way around? I'll retest it tomorrow. I guess I haven't really been testing it because I don't really have the knowledge/resources at the moment to change it anyway. The ph on my 29g has been around 7.4, I need to test it on my 20g. I'm sure it is a bit lower with having a pretty large piece of driftwood in it. TDS runs a little lower on that tank too (10-15ppm) for some reason even though the water is a little tea colored.

 

[smallfry53]

I've been wanting to switch out my substrate for a long time. As you can see I've just had the generic pet store round gravel but with fish in, I have been hesitant to do so. Well, I've just had a cheap pressed board stand too so I found somebody selling a 29g setup with an oak stand/hood. Now I'm thinking it might be a good time to go ahead and put new substrate in the new tank, and get it all set up (while the fish are still in the old tank). Then swap the plants/decor/filters/fish etc into the new tank. Any thoughts? I guess I'm just worried I'd stress the fish out and I'd be losing a lot of BB in the old tank/substrate, but I guess it's nothing pwcs can't handle. Any suggestions on new substrate? I've been thinking something darker, and thinking either sand or something plant friendly. I went with flora max on my 20g and I like that a whole lot better than the stuff in the 29g. Not sure if I want to try something different on the 29g though.

 

[coralbandit]

Some fish like GBR show much better color on a dark substrate IMO..
I think setting up a new tank is the best way to switch things over IMO.
Your water sounds a lot like my tap except your TDS is like 1/2 of mine...
I would not mess with your water as it is working for you now..
The tank with lower TDS is likely from the drift wood..Yea it can actually lower the TDS...
I am not a good scaper or plant guy ,but I have one tank with Eco complete which looks good and actually grows plants for me 'low tech'....