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Old 08-08-2006, 09:16 PM   #1
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German Blue Ram Eggs, Need Help!

I have 4 pairs of German Blue Rams, 5 danios, and 2 bushynose plecos (less than 2 inches each) in my 55 gallon aquarium, along with 3 clams and some (12) ghost shrimp. I Had one pair of the GBR's spawn this weekend when I was not home, but I noticed it when I got back. The eggs were in a bad location that was hard to reach as they were on the driftwood and also on a plant behind the wood, and near the water filter. The eggs were gone the next day so I am assuming that something ate them all, possibly even the parents themselves if they weren't fertilized. I also noticed yesterday that another pair seemed to be showing breeding behaviors. The male was using his body as a shovel and digging out a nest and the female was more aggressive towards males than she normal is. Well...

I just noticed a few minutes ago that this pair had spawned on the driftwood in an ideal place for removal. What should I do? If I want to remove them how would I do this and how soon should I place them in a 10 gallon aquarium of their own? I don't have one now but I am getting one soon. All that I have is one of the Marina breeder traps for the eggs to go in to. Should I risk trying to take the eggs out or should I let the parents (young parents) try their hand with them? I just don't want them to get eaten, though I realize that the eggs may not even be fertilized. The male fertilizes them right away correct? And how long until I get wigglers if they are indeed fertilized? Any advice is greatly appreciated as this is my first time trying this. I have some pics of the eggs that I am going to attach. Feel free to ask for more of them : ) Thanks in advance.
Almost forgot... I have ANOTHER pair ready to spawn and I think the 4th won't be far behind. YIKES!

EDIT:BTW- I counted in the neighborhood of 450 eggs. I was at 440 for sure. I opened a photo in paint and erased them as I counted them off. WOW! I heard 200-400 eggs, but I guess my female is just an over-achiever! : )

EDIT#2: Okay this is not even funny. In the time it took to write this and post the pics I noticed that the OTHER pair that I thought was going to spawn is actually in the midst of it. The female is laying round eggs that appear to be reddish orange in color. The ones that I took pics of are more of a cream color and are slightly elongated. SOMEONE PLEASE HELP!!!
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Old 08-08-2006, 11:13 PM   #2
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This is going to be a very quick crash course. Hope you are ready....

First, don't let the eggs touch the air. It will kill the eggs. What I would do is submerge a container or bucket big enough to put the driftwood and eggs in without the eggs touching the air. Then, if you don't want to acclimate the eggs, then fill the 10G with water from the 55G, or even just half way and then half fresh water. Then submerge the container in the 10G and remove the driftwood.

Now what you will want to do is have plenty of current near the eggs. I used a small powerhead on the opposite end of the tank until they hatched, then I removed the powerhead and just used an airstone near the wigglers for added current. And if using a standard filter on the tank, use some scissors and snip out the middle of a sponge large enough to put over the filter intake, that way when they become free-swimming, they won't get sucked up. Or you could get a sponge filter that is operated by an air pump. Either way works.

Then to help fight fungus, use Hydrogen Peroxide 3%. Use 5ml per 10G. Dose this every morning and every evening. This is probably the best for ridding any fungus. Once the eggs hatch and you have wigglers, then I dose a regular dose of Pimafix (5ml) every 2-3 days til the wigglers are free-swimming, and stop the HP treatment. Don't add HP with the Pimafix. This will keep the wigglers that are still on the bottom safe from fungus.

Now that the eggs have hatched and you have wigglers, you have about 5-7 days to figure out what you are going to feed them. I noticed that the fry food you purchase in the store is too big for some of them to eat. So what do you feed them? Egg yolk for one thing. Egg yolk is rich in protain and minerals, which will help their immune systems. It contain all of the egg's fat and cholesterol, and almost half of the protein. Take a hard boiled egg, and take a pinch of egg yolk out of it, and add it to a bowel of water and squish it til it's all dissolved. Then take an egg dropper and put in a few drops, and can even spot feed them by squirting a tiny amound near them. Don't worry, even if you can't see the egg yolk when it disperses, they can. You will see them go crazy for it, eating the small particles. Just don't overfeed, as it will cause your water parameters to go sour.

After about a week to a week and a half, they will be big enough to start eating fry food like Hikari First Bites. It's like a powder. I just dip my finger in the tank, then blot some of the water off and stick my finger in the food so some sticks to the damp finger, then dip my finger back in the tank, and it will all disperse, and the fish will chomp on it.

Edit:
If any eggs look like they have fungus, or are solid white, remove them. They are bad. The eggs should be semi-transparent. After day 1, you should be able to see the eyes and the spine in the eggs. They are very small, so you may need to squint, lol. And if you aren't sure if it's good or not, leave it in til you know for sure.

Edit:
Not sure how good you are at science, but HP turns to water in about 30 minutes or a little less. So there's nothing to do to remove HP from the tank. And as for the Pimafix, I never did anything to remove it. And after free-swimming, try not to do water changes for the first 4-6 weeks if possible. When I did a 10% PWC with no difference in water temp, it wiped out half the fry or more. At about 4-5 weeks, they will be big enough to withstand water changes. And if you can add snails after they are free-swimming, it will help in removing excess food for you. Also, floating plants will help keep nitrates and phosphates down as well.
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Old 08-09-2006, 12:48 AM   #3
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Thanks alot. I got a lot of good info from you. I have one problem though. The piece of driftwood is rather large and there is NO container that will hold it LOL. I had to anchor it down with rocks because it just wants to pop out of the tank. I need something else to get the eggs off of the wood. Do they stick to it? I also have a pair that spawned withing a foot of the other pair but it is right in the sand. should I scoop it out and then try to gently place it in the 10 gallon? What are your thoughts on the little breeding trap? Prolly too small but I was just thinking for the time being.
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Old 08-09-2006, 01:10 AM   #4
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Do you have a small flat rock or something like granite? If you do, then use a toothpick and remove the eggs and place on another fairly flat surface.

A breeding trap might work too, just depends on the setup.

As for being sticky, I'm not sure. I know they stick to the surface, but after being removed, not sure. Could also remove them into a small container if they don't stick, and then move it to the 10G.
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Old 08-09-2006, 09:14 AM   #5
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Congrds and good luck in self hatching, It's a really easy and has as LWB knows great rewards in doing it. Whatching them grow from wigglers to swiming minies of the parents. Now I have great respect for all the info LWB has and does give and it's on the money everytime, But you can remove the eggs from the tank for a split secound as long as they don't dry out they'll be fine IMO. I removed mine two days ago and they are doing great only two out of the 300 so far have turned bad.
I have a Ideal on getting them out of your tank. Try using a large ziplock bag to place them in. The one major thing in keeping them health and fungs free is to be just like clock work with the HP3% every 12 hrs is a great starting point.
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Old 08-09-2006, 12:52 PM   #6
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Thanks to both of you. I think I am going to try the toothpick method and try to collect them in a cup or something as I don't have any flat rock that would be easy to work with. I am going to get a 10 gallon setup after work and use the water from the 55 gallon tank to fill that. I am not sure that it will be large enough as I have probably 800 eggs from both spawns which were hours apart. I know not all of them will survive though.
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