New tank with pregnant fish

[myriam]

My tank is less than 2 wks old. Now that I've read a lot more about new aquariums, I think the guy at PetSmart let me buy too many fish at once, and a couple are pregnant. I let the tank condition for 48 hrs before I added the fish: 3 Black Mollys, 5 Red Wag Platys, and 2 Aeneus Cory Catfish.

They all seem to be happy and healthy so far. But then last night when the tank light went off, I noticed funny movement at gravel level. At closer inspection I realized it was fry and was quite excited There was one small black one and one small clear-colored one. Today I observed the tank for a good hour, and watched a Platy give 5 live births--so cool!--unfortunately they seemed to disappear pretty fast. Are they hiding or have they been eaten? I noticed one of the catfish slurped one up and then spit it out, and the fry sped off. Ack!

So my question is, should I get one of those breeder things? What is the best way to use it? How can I safely and quickly gather the fry when they are first born? How can I tell if the Platy or Molly will soon be giving birth? I have no room or funds for a small tank for my pregnant fish. Also, how long do I need to wait before putting the fry back in with the other fish? I'd hate to see them become snacks.

Thanks for any help.[/code]

 

[LondonGman]

hi Myriam,
I should welcome you to the group but that is Allivymar job. Allivymar is the best.

should I get one of those breeder things

Yes. it may be too late for your babies but is useful to have anyway.

What is the best way to use it

see picture below

How can I safely and quickly gather the fry when they are first born

with a net, but ideally you should have the pregnant mum in the floating container first. There is a divider at the base of the container for the babies to fall through. When the female has finally given birth, you remove the divider and mum.

How can I tell if the Platy or Molly will soon be giving birth

Mollies look like they are about to explode. honestly

how long do I need to wait before putting the fry back in with the other fish

when they are at least larger than 2 or 3 mouth full of the exsisting fishes in your tank.

 

[Allivymar]

Heh, you're embassing the hell out of me Gman

And on that note, welcome to Aquariumadvice myriam LOL

I'm no expert on livebearers; all my guys are egg layers and none of em have decided to go there yet *sigh* but I can see you're going to have to make some decisions. Obviously your guys (and gals!) are real fertile; they are going to continue to breed. You need to decide what you will do with the fry. There's going to come a point very soon where there won't be enough room in the tank for all of em (assuming you decide to keep them). What size tank btw? You can either get a new tank for the new fish and just keep them, get a tank to raise them and try to sell the fry when they get bigger to a lfs or neighbors, or let the other fish eat the babies and avoid having to find homes from them (which can be really tough sometimes).

 

[myriam]

Gman and Allivymar, thanks for the advice! Very helpful stuff.

Gman, what is the blue thing in that picture? Is that an airstone? If it is, do I need to put one in the breeder tank, too? I don't know how an airstone works, I've just heard of them.

Well I haven't figured out what I would do if my fish keep breeding, which I'm guessing they will. Maybe ask the neighborhood kids if they want to start aquariums? But at least for now, I'd just love to have some of the babies survive 'coz it'd be cool to watch them grow.

This is a GREAT website and forum, BTW. I searched using Google for a site like this and it took me a bit of time, actually. There are a lot of hokey and useless ones out there. So thanks to all who make this possible!

 

[Allivymar]

Just a FYI, airstones attach to air pumps, but the air you see moving thru the water column is NOT added to the water. Its actually the agitation the cause at the surface which enhances oxygen transfer. The more movement at the surface, the more O2 is exchanged. If there is no movement at the surface, there is not enough O2 getting into the water.

Heh and you should be thanking yourself. Its the peeps who frequent here that make it so awesome. The more folks coming in here asking questions, means we wind up with more folks, with more knowledge, and more able to help the newbies

 

[myriam]

Ok I have a some dumb questions about this. I'm obviously a novice

I attach the air stone to an air pump?! How do I do that? I have a filter and a heater only, so I guess I'm confused.

I think the fry are have all been eaten. I found a Black Molly fry that was over a 1/2" long already, and he was hiding under a leaf all day yesterday. I was excited for him and was hopeful he'd survive getting eaten. Unfortunately this morning I was looking for him, but instead found his remains (head-stringy piece-tail)--totally ghastly. My guess is he came out during the night and they pecked him to death and then ate him

So does that mean I need to wait till the fry are like an inch long or more before letting them join the rest of the tank? How long will that take? What can I do to keep them healthy and growing while they are in the breeder thing? I'd hate to to grow them in there to an inch or so, let them join the other fish, and then they get eaten again.

 

[Blatchy]

Generally speaking if they dont fit in the mouth I believe your fry will be safe. Only release them if they are bigger than the largest fish's mouths.

With regards to the air stone: All you need to do is attach piping from the air pump to the air stone. When buying the air stone be sure that it isn't too big. What i mean is ensure that your pump can blow sufficient amounts of air through it. If you buy one that is to large you will find not many bubbles will come from it where as a small one will pump out lots. Just depends on how powerful your pump is. Attaching it is really easy, you have the tube attached to your air pump now all you do to attach the stone is insert the small hard plastic fitting which comes attached to the stone into the other end of the piping.

Basically the stone comes with a connector which just inserts into the tube which is attached to the air pump.

With regards to the fry Im not to sure how fast they grow but I know there are products out there which you can feed them that are made solely for fry.

 

[Blatchy]

You'll need to buy a pump, an airstone and about 5 foot of tubing maybe more depending on where you want the pump etc.

 

[LondonGman]

So does that mean I need to wait till the fry are like an inch long or more before letting them join the rest of the tank?

at least big enough so they cannot get eaten. 3/4 inch maybe

How long will that take?

a loooog tme it seems. I had mollies and now have baby guppies and they take forever in a breeder tank. I gave a few baby guppies to a mate who introduced them to a 24" tank with only 6 young mollies and they are all nearly an inch long. All mine are still tiny. I put 3 in the main tank and they lasted 60 seconds as they were hunted down by the cardinals. The cardinal tetras did not look very pretty with half a baby guppy down its throat LOL

What can I do to keep them healthy and growing while they are in the breeder thing?

I do not know and cannot find any definitive answer anywhere, so common sense has taken over. I added the air stone to, as Allivymar said, to increase oxygen but also to add a bit current to the water. The slots in the container are so small that the water in it very stagnant. Also I sited the container near the flow of water.

Note if you have a spare airline, it might make sense to get a seperate larger container and raise them it it, but that is another topic.

 

[TankGirl]

Don't forget that this tank is not cycled yet, so you will have some issues to contend with during the cycle, and the fry would not likely survive the stress of going through it. You need to monitor ammonia and nitrites during this process, and keep the levels low with water changes, until the cycle is complete.

 

[platylover]

I had mollies and now have baby guppies and they take forever in a breeder tank. I gave a few baby guppies to a mate who introduced them to a 24" tank with only 6 young mollies and they are all nearly an inch long. All mine are still tiny.

Gman hit that right on the head. I have been doing a little experiment with a brood of platy fry that I have. I have 3 fry in the main tank, with plenty of hiding places such as plants, and 3 fry in the breeder trap. The fry are all about 1 and a half weeks old and the 3 fry in the main tank are easily twice the size of the ones in the breeder. I believe that the size difference is because the fry in the trap end up eating some of their droppings and the droppings are supposed to have growth inhibiters(spelling?) in it that keep the fry from growing as fast as the ones in the main tank.

As far as the size the fry need to be to introduce them into the main tank again, that all depends on the size of the other fish in the tank. I think someone already said the line about the fry being bigger than that the largest fish's mouth. Another thing that you can do is to make sure that you have plenty of dense vegitation, either real or fake I have fake myself, so that the fry have hiding places in the main tank until they feel comfortable comming out and swmming with the other fish. I've released fry into the main tank as small as 1/2 inch and they have all survived. HTH!

 

[myriam]

Well at this point I believe I have zero fry I haven't seen any in days, even with the tank lights off and me sitting there for a 1/2 hour looking. Kind of a bummer, but from what I've read it looks like the Mollies and Platies all give birth every 3-4 weeks, so hopefully I'll get another chance at some fry.

I have read conflicting things on various websites about these two kinds of fish and their fry. Some sites say they are the livebearers least likely to eat their young; some say otherwise. It's so confusing.

I never did see either of these eat any fry. I did see one of my Cories eat one, though. These guys are who I'm a bit worried about; I have 2. I moved some plants around (just plastic is all I have) to make a foresty area in one corner, because somebody here said the vegetation should be enough for the fry to hide in, so I wouldn't need a breeder tank. But those Cories! They burrow at the roots of the plants, sucking all around the gravel, and even moving the gravel around and sucking around it. That's when I saw one eat a fry--he moved a piece of gravel and a little guy came out, and he slurped him right up.

I had spotted two Molly fry that were over 1/2 inch long, and I thought for sure they'd make it. But I saw the remains of one the other morning--I think they pecked him to death and then ate everything but the head/tail. Ugh. So maybe I have real cannibals in there, geez.

I posted something the other day but got zero replies. It was about using a tank divider to create a breeding area. It's a very thin piece of plastic with tiny holes all over, and supposedly the thing won't interfere with heat, filtration, etc. I thought I'd section of a 1/4-1/3 of my 20G to keep the fry in, so they'd still be in the tank but safe in their own section until they are big enough and I can remove the divider.

What do you think?

 

[dralarms]

That divider will interfere with cirulation. I had one, didn't like it, one side was ok, the other side had a nasty film on top.

 

[myriam]

Oh man, really?! Even if it's just for a few weeks?

I'm so torn about what to do, as it seems there are so many pros/cons for both breeder nets and just leaving the fry in the tank.

:?

 

[LondonGman]

Myriam,
You do not have to put the female in the tank for a few weeks, only about 48 hours max. My female black molly would get a bit aggressive and restless and a huuuge ROUNDED belly just before she gave birth. Unfortunately, there are no other physical signs. Now if you put her in too early, she will get stressed out. Too late and your other fishes will have a “fry-up” (British slang meaning breakfast”, LOL).

At that point she is likely to give birth any day. So put her in the breeder tank with the divider at the bottom. She will start spitting out, from the rear end, these tiny round things that quickly unfurl into a tiny tadpole looking things, every 5 mins or so for the next few hours.

When she has not had any more babies for about 30 minute carefully transfer her to the main tank and take out the divider. I think you biggest problems start at that point. What to do with them all. Once you catch them, you get emotionally attached and they take forever to grow in the breeder tank as platylover comfirms. I too had the problem justmy2cents had hence the airstone.

TIP: To eliminate mistaking overfeeding for pregnancy, do not feed your fishes for a day. If the female still has a huge rounded belly, she could be ready to give birth. Do not worry, fishes can live for a day with out food.

The same that happened to the last batch of fry will happen to the next if you leave them in the tank. Some will survive a few day though.

 

[myriam]

Hoping for no more fry-ups

Thanks you guys for all your info. I do appreciate it

So I think what I will do, since I already have the divider, is to give that a go. Since I'm such a newbie at this breeding thing, I'm really worried I'll put the prego female into the breeder tank too early and the stress will cause her to abort (which I've heard from people here can happen quite readily). That way, if I do put her in a week early then at least she'll have a 6+ gallon area of the tank to swim in with lots of plants and all that. Wish me luck! I'll just make sure the divided-off area is nice and clean.

So let's say I manage to pull this off during the next round of births from the Platies and Mollies...do I then end up with dozens of fry?! Do they all live if they don't get eaten? I mean, my tank is only 20G so I don't think I can have like 5 dozen fish in there! I guess I could see if any of the LFS around me will take fry that are an inch or so.

But I guess I may be counting the chickens...er...fry before they are hatched...

 

[platylover]

Good luck on the next batch of fry and keep us posted on how the tank divider works for you.

 

[dralarms]

Word to the wise, don't use the breeder net. I just took mine out of the tank and the whole thing smells of amonia, and my tank levels are 0. so you are not getting proper circulation with it. I now know what killed 1 of my guppies.

 

[angelstiger]

I find that breeder nets dont offer enough protection from a hungry mother. V bottom breeders are the best by far. as far as growing out the fry, I run two 10 gal. tanks for fry. One for small fry under 1/2 inch, and a second for fry between 1/2 and 1 inch. I find this method allows the small fry to get enough food. At 1 inch the fingerlings are usually large enough avoid the larger tankmates in my main livebearer tank.

As far as cories eating fry, I keep a small albino cory in each of my fry tanks to clean up extra food. I have never had them eat live fry. They will eat the ones that are already dead. The acception to this is newborn fry, until they are about 24 hour old they are usually not very mobile. If they don't get out of the way , a cory will eat them, but a cory is a random scavenger. They don't actively hunt thier food. They just take advantage of what is in front of thier mouths.