Sexing angelfish

[Bettalover333]

So a few weeks ago I picked up a pair of large angels at my lfs. The person who dumped them there claims they are a breeding pair, although the lfs had no proof. They do seem bonded, and follow eachother all around. There is some aggression (but perhaps actually spawning behavior?), and today I saw them in a lip lock, however no torn fins. I was hoping for some help, pics are attached. Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[BillD]

Can't tell from those photos, since neither fish is showing a breeding tube. If they drop the female's will be larger and more blunt while the male will have one that is smaller in diameter, and pointed.

 

[ghyti]

The Marble looks female and the smokey looks male. No guarantees, you will just have to wait until they spawn to be sure.

 

[Bettalover333]

That's what I was thinking too. I'll just have to wait to know for sure until they spawn, which will hopefully be soon. Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[Fishobsessed7]

The Marble looks female and the smokey looks male. No guarantees, you will just have to wait until they spawn to be sure.

I agree with this


Fishobsessed7

Money Can't Buy Happiness, But It Can Buy Fish Which Is Pretty Much The Same Thing

 

[Darkfalcon]

The marble one (the black one) looks male to me. And the other one is female. Btw, wonder what will happen if u breed a full black angel with platinum angel?? xD

Sent from my vivo Y28 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[ghyti]

The marble one (the black one) looks male to me. And the other one is female. Btw, wonder what will happen if u breed a full black angel with platinum angel?? xD

If by "full black" you mean double dark, no matter what you breed it with all the offspring will be black.

 

[Andy Sager]

Based on these pics, I'd say the Marble is female and the Smokey is male. No guarantees but looking good. In today's Angelfish, normal sexing tools go out the window as there are many cases of fish showing opposite gender external characteristics. Once the tubes show, then you will know for sure.
Keep in mind that when you move breeding pairs around, it can take some time for them to get readjusted to the new surroundings and it doesn't always mean that they will spawn again. The best you can do is provide the best possible scenario for spawning for the fish and let nature take it's course.

 

[Darkfalcon]

I heard giving them brine shrimps can help them get in the mood again (or other live food), is that true?? And put a few plants inside the breeding tank as well might help

Sent from my vivo Y28 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[Andy Sager]

I heard giving them brine shrimps can help them get in the mood again (or other live food), is that true?? And put a few plants inside the breeding tank as well might help

Sent from my vivo Y28 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

It's not doing 1 thing or another( ie adding food or plants, or a spawning site or doing water changes or providing security alone,) it's doing all those things that increases the chances they will spawn again. You can condition the pair with any kind of higher quality foods not just live. Plants are actually that last thing you want to add if you intend on removing the spawn to hatch out yourself. You keep the spawning sites to a minimum so that they hopefully choose what you have supplied and that can be easily removed from the tank. All my pairs are in bare tanks with a slate and 1 plastic plant that is of a fine leaved plant so the only place they usually spawn on is the slate which I remove. But all my breeders are up on the top rows so there is little foot traffic in front of them. THAT ( foot traffic) alone can stop a pair from spawning.

 

[Darkfalcon]

It's not doing 1 thing or another( ie adding food or plants, or a spawning site or doing water changes or providing security alone,) it's doing all those things that increases the chances they will spawn again. You can condition the pair with any kind of higher quality foods not just live. Plants are actually that last thing you want to add if you intend on removing the spawn to hatch out yourself. You keep the spawning sites to a minimum so that they hopefully choose what you have supplied and that can be easily removed from the tank. All my pairs are in bare tanks with a slate and 1 plastic plant that is of a fine leaved plant so the only place they usually spawn on is the slate which I remove. But all my breeders are up on the top rows so there is little foot traffic in front of them. THAT ( foot traffic) alone can stop a pair from spawning.

I see. I intend to use the tank for hatching tho. So instead of removing the slate (I use some sort of board) and move it to another tank for hatching, I remove the parents from the tank (even my friend chooses not to use the slate and let them pour the eggs on the aquarium walls). I usually put mini water lettuce on top of the water (maybe 1 or 2, depends on how wide/tall the aquarium is I might put more than 2) and 2 big plants (because they are usually easier to put than smaller ones). I don't put too many plants since it'll be hard for me to catch the parents if there are too many plants.

Btw, what is the foot traffic you're talking about? The most effective way to make them get in the mood is probably high quality food and water conditions. Since that's my experience with my danio breeding. Well I never intended to breed them, but they bred themselves. And I found their babies inside the filtration. But this happened 2 months ago, so right now they're quite big, probably half of their parents' size. I tried to make them get in the mood again and it worked. But the problem is that I moved them into a new tank with other new fishes (small fishes) and this tank uses a different kind of filtration setting, so I can see their eggs sometimes, but since I can't pull them out (the eggs or the parents) I just leave it be and let the parents eat them. And the eggs won't be pulled inside the filter due to different filtration settings.

 

[Andy Sager]

I see. I intend to use the tank for hatching tho. So instead of removing the slate (I use some sort of board) and move it to another tank for hatching, I remove the parents from the tank (even my friend chooses not to use the slate and let them pour the eggs on the aquarium walls). I usually put mini water lettuce on top of the water (maybe 1 or 2, depends on how wide/tall the aquarium is I might put more than 2) and 2 big plants (because they are usually easier to put than smaller ones). I don't put too many plants since it'll be hard for me to catch the parents if there are too many plants.

Btw, what is the foot traffic you're talking about? The most effective way to make them get in the mood is probably high quality food and water conditions. Since that's my experience with my danio breeding. Well I never intended to breed them, but they bred themselves. And I found their babies inside the filtration. But this happened 2 months ago, so right now they're quite big, probably half of their parents' size. I tried to make them get in the mood again and it worked. But the problem is that I moved them into a new tank with other new fishes (small fishes) and this tank uses a different kind of filtration setting, so I can see their eggs sometimes, but since I can't pull them out (the eggs or the parents) I just leave it be and let the parents eat them. And the eggs won't be pulled inside the filter due to different filtration settings.

Moving the parents around is one of the fastest ways to get them to STOP breeding so in my experience with over 100s of pairs, it's best to move the eggs not the breeders or, see if the parent will raise the fry themselves.
Danios are not Angels and they don't spawn the same way so to compare the 2 is not really a good or fair comparison. Danios will breed in less than perfect conditions.
The better plants to use as spawning sites are the Amazon Sword plants due to their larger and thicker leaves. If you are not going to remove the eggs, those would be my plant of choice. Slate or tile or marble or clay pots all make good spawning sites and are easily removed. You just don't want to have a surface that is slick so the eggs can't attach to it.

Foot traffic is people or animals walking in front of the tank constantly. This can be upsetting to the breeders so they don't breed. This is why I put my breeders up high so that I can still walk through the isles and not disturb them. Once they get really used to your presence when spawning, they tend to not care. I've done water changes in the 2 tanks on either side to a spawning pair and they just kept on laying like I wasn't there. ( But I have also had fish stop and then eat their eggs so it's not a guarantee they won't mind. )

Hope this helps.

 

[Darkfalcon]

Moving the parents around is one of the fastest ways to get them to STOP breeding so in my experience with over 100s of pairs, it's best to move the eggs not the breeders or, see if the parent will raise the fry themselves.
Danios are not Angels and they don't spawn the same way so to compare the 2 is not really a good or fair comparison. Danios will breed in less than perfect conditions.
The better plants to use as spawning sites are the Amazon Sword plants due to their larger and thicker leaves. If you are not going to remove the eggs, those would be my plant of choice. Slate or tile or marble or clay pots all make good spawning sites and are easily removed. You just don't want to have a surface that is slick so the eggs can't attach to it.

Foot traffic is people or animals walking in front of the tank constantly. This can be upsetting to the breeders so they don't breed. This is why I put my breeders up high so that I can still walk through the isles and not disturb them. Once they get really used to your presence when spawning, they tend to not care. I've done water changes in the 2 tanks on either side to a spawning pair and they just kept on laying like I wasn't there. ( But I have also had fish stop and then eat their eggs so it's not a guarantee they won't mind. )

Hope this helps.

Your explanation is good

Amazon sword plants?? I'll look it up but I doubt that it'll be available in my local stores lol.

So if I move the parents they might stop breeding I the future?? Hmm ok, I'll move the eggs instead. But that means I have to order another aquarium for the eggs + hatching place since I didn't know this lol.

So foot traffic can affect the breeding?? From your experience which is better? The one that is placed with less foot traffic? Or the one which get used to our presence?? The best place to make them used to our presence will be to put them inside our house I guess xD

Btw, how many aquariums do u recommend for breeding angels?? (for breeding, hatching until growing).

 

[Andy Sager]

Your explanation is good

Amazon sword plants?? I'll look it up but I doubt that it'll be available in my local stores lol. ( Any broad leaved sword plant should work.)

So if I move the parents they might stop breeding I the future?? Hmm ok, I'll move the eggs instead. But that means I have to order another aquarium for the eggs + hatching place since I didn't know this lol. ( Yes, breeder like stability and moving them around is not stable.)

So foot traffic can affect the breeding?? From your experience which is better? The one that is placed with less foot traffic? Or the one which get used to our presence?? The best place to make them used to our presence will be to put them inside our house I guess xD ( Yes, breeding, even in the wild, takes place in secretive areas not out in the open so the best place for them is away from foot traffic.)

Btw, how many aquariums do u recommend for breeding angels?? (for breeding, hatching until growing). ( I use a system that requires at least 4 tanks per pair of Angels. Since, when healthy, these fish can spawn 3 to 4 times per month, you need to have enough tanks to house all those spawns. I strongly recommend you read through the thread "Wigglers at last!!!!" {http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f82/wigglers-at-last-237956.html } as it explains just about everything you need to know about breeding and raising Angels.)

 

[Darkfalcon]

Hmmm, breeding angels seem to be quite a challenge compared to live-bearers and danios. Might take up the challenge soon after I'm able to make more space in my house.

And how do u keep the eggs' tank clean?? What filter should I use for babies? Hang-on filter? Water pump filter? Or Air pump filter?

And I had troubles feeding my baby danios before (and other babies as well). I have a powder pellets but sometimes they don't fit into their mouth. And I tend to overfeed them with powder pellets because there are some pellets that can fit to their mouth but mostly not. What do u suggest for feeding babies? I tried to search for artemia at the lfs, but they say that it is expensive and only breeders come looking for them so they rarely (extremely rare) stock these artemia eggs. But what I do wonder is how did my baby danios survive inside the filtration system and grows quite big there by themselves?? Did they eat micro bacteria that lives there or something?? (one of them was already around 1.5 cm and all of them are already in free swimming state)

 

[Andy Sager]

Hmmm, breeding angels seem to be quite a challenge compared to live-bearers and danios. Might take up the challenge soon after I'm able to make more space in my house.

And how do u keep the eggs' tank clean?? What filter should I use for babies? Hang-on filter? Water pump filter? Or Air pump filter?

And I had troubles feeding my baby danios before (and other babies as well). I have a powder pellets but sometimes they don't fit into their mouth. And I tend to overfeed them with powder pellets because there are some pellets that can fit to their mouth but mostly not. What do u suggest for feeding babies? I tried to search for artemia at the lfs, but they say that it is expensive and only breeders come looking for them so they rarely (extremely rare) stock these artemia eggs. But what I do wonder is how did my baby danios survive inside the filtration system and grows quite big there by themselves?? Did they eat micro bacteria that lives there or something?? (one of them was already around 1.5 cm and all of them are already in free swimming state)

Yes, it's different than those other 2. Read Wigglers thread and it will explain it all.

 

[Darkfalcon]

Oh ok, I'll read it ASAP

Sent from my vivo Y28 using Aquarium Advice mobile app