Wigglers 2: Birth of a hatchery & everything Angels

[coralbandit]

Yea baby!!!
Your blobs(wigglers) look like mine!!!!

Digging the videos .

 

[Andy Sager]

Yea baby!!!
Your blobs(wigglers) look like mine!!!!

Digging the videos .

Oddly enough, most South American Cichlid wigglers look alike. It's once they start developing their colors and fins that they differentiate themselves. I even tried, once, to slip in another fish's eggs into a tank of breeding Angels to see if they would care for them along with their eggs at that time. Didn't work tho. Guess they knew they didn't spawn on that rock AND the slate.

Glad you like the vids.

 

[skylane]

Oddly enough, most South American Cichlid wigglers look alike. It's once they start developing their colors and fins that they differentiate themselves. I even tried, once, to slip in another fish's eggs into a tank of breeding Angels to see if they would care for them along with their eggs at that time. Didn't work tho. Guess they knew they didn't spawn on that rock AND the slate.

Glad you like the vids.

I subscribed dudes...[emoji15]
I can't believe how many Andy dudes are on there when I searched... Hey Andy , by the way you were the only one with an Angel avatar!!![emoji6]

PICTURES a thousand words thumbs

Clem.

 

[Andy Sager]

I subscribed dudes...[emoji15]
I can't believe how many Andy dudes are on there when I searched... Hey Andy , by the way you were the only one with an Angel avatar!!![emoji6]

PICTURES a thousand words thumbs

Clem.

Thanks. I figured my AA followers would know it was me if they saw that fish. He was not a common veil by any stretch. Besides, who wants to see an old fish guy? ( You can see me in my albums here. ) I know I would rather see the fish.

 

[skylane]

Thanks. I figured my AA followers would know it was me if they saw that fish. He was not a common veil by any stretch. Besides, who wants to see an old fish guy? [emoji38] ( You can see me in my albums here. ) I know I would rather see the fish.

Your no old guy, the voice doesn't say that.!!! It was very clear and nice how you showed us the development stages!!!
Hey on a musical note... Does music make a difference, with fish??? My tunes are on when I'm with my fish, not loud ,but enough I wonder???[emoji39]

Clem.

 

[mikey5290]

Subscribed.
Looking forward to more videos.

 

[coralbandit]

Hey on a musical note... Does music make a difference, with fish??? My tunes are on when I'm with my fish, not loud ,but enough I wonder???[emoji39]

Clem.

Pay no attention to him now Andy!
I hooked you Clem!
I think an 'old school' music thread is in order......
Aqua marine...
Great name for a fish head and a GREAT SONG(to old guys)

 

[fish wrangler]

Looks like YouTube is letting anyone make a channel nowadays lol
I subbed to you Andy

How is the breeding thing going?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[skylane]

Pay no attention to him now Andy!
I hooked you Clem!
I think an 'old school' music thread is in order......
Aqua marine...
Great name for a fish head and a GREAT SONG(to old guys)[emoji38]

Back to school, sure why not!!!
I heard some Supertramp one morning, BREAKFAST in America was on , they played the whole album, while I was doing WC and tank maintenance, on a nice Sunday morning!!![emoji39]
Classic rock, grew up in the 70s, 80s. I'm listening now to ...Time in a bottle. Instrumental . life before FM radio, AM gold in my dad's Nova.. Where did all that great stuff go??? It's like a perfect marriage ...music and Aquariums!!!
I think my fish do respond when they see a happy fish keeper!!!

 

[Andy Sager]

Your no old guy, the voice doesn't say that.!!! It was very clear and nice how you showed us the development stages!!!
Hey on a musical note... Does music make a difference, with fish??? My tunes are on when I'm with my fish, not loud ,but enough I wonder???[emoji39]

Clem.

I'm older than I sound but younger than I feel.
As for the tunes, I would think it only bothers the fish if you are making the water vibrate.

Pay no attention to him now Andy!
I hooked you Clem!
I think an 'old school' music thread is in order......
Aqua marine...
Great name for a fish head and a GREAT SONG(to old guys)

Thanks? My fish seem to really dig the later Beatles music. Octopus' Garden gets them going and Helter Skelter just drives them into a tizzy. What can I say, I'm just Mother Nature's Son.

Looks like YouTube is letting anyone make a channel nowadays lol
I subbed to you Andy, a sub back would be ? the iceing on top

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

I'd subscribe but I am not that talented. I don't really spend much time on the site anyway. Too busy working.

 

[sinibotia]

Hey Andy, maybe a dumb question: How long do angelfish typically show spawning behavior before they actually spawn? This pair I got has been cleaning a slate and liplocking intermittently since I got them a week ago. I'm in no rush, just curious if they tend to always show this behavior between spawns as a pair or if this is unusual.

 

[Andy Sager]

Today, I thought I was going to be writing about how I've been watching the spawn size from the Black-Zebra lace pair going down every day but I just went over to the tank to look again and it turns out, the fry count hasn't been dwindling but they have been being moved so I couldn't see them. WHEW!!!!!! I thought I was down to about 5 or 6 fry when I just looked, the male came rushing to the front of the tank to scare me and a whole cloud of fry came shooting out of the corner. I repeat, WHEW!!!!! They are still a couple of days away from free swimming age so my fingers are still crossed for some swimmers.

/QUOTE]


Well sadly, today was day 7 and the fry did not survive. No hiding this time. They were visible and dead. Maybe a month even isn't long enough to get these fish back in shape. The only good news at the moment is that I am more interested in the F1s spawning than the old pairs. I've gotten from them what I needed to get so now, it's more figuring out what went wrong so I don't do it again. Hopefully, I can get the rest of the fish in here back into salable shape to at least help pay for their food.

I noticed today that some fish from the first spawn of the Red Cap/ Gold Marble pair, now just short of 5 months old, are starting to show some Red coloring along their nape and shoulders. I am loading a video of the fish onto my Youtube channel as I type this. As you will see, the fish look more of a Peach color than Gold or White and the red is a bit more pronounced in the video than when I look at the fish but if this holds true and the red comes out, this will be the second type of fish now that shows their new color at the 4 to 5 month age stage. The Koi's also don't seem to show any Orange until they get about that age. Size is not as much the issue as the age is. At least something good came from today.

 

[Andy Sager]

Hey Andy, maybe a dumb question: How long do angelfish typically show spawning behavior before they actually spawn? This pair I got has been cleaning a slate and liplocking intermittently since I got them a week ago. I'm in no rush, just curious if they tend to always show this behavior between spawns as a pair or if this is unusual.

Not a dumb question at all.
Angels usually will do more testing ( lip locking) before their first spawn than any other spawn. The females want to make sure the males are the right ones to spawn with. Once that bond is created, they generally won't go through that process again unless they are faced with a new partner. As for how long that will take, "It takes as long as it takes for one of them to be satisfied." ( Welcome to married life. JK) It's not an exact science but they generally won't go at for more than a week or so. It's important tho, that both fish are cleaning the slate. THAT'S the sign that spawning should be soon ( usually within a couple of days at the most). If only the female is cleaning, there is a possibility that she has rejected the male and is cleaning the slate for her to lay her eggs without the male. He may get lucky and be allowed to get into the act and, depending on your female, it all may work out. If you read back towards the beginning(ish) of this thread, I had a similar experience with my 1/2 Black male and Zebra Lace female. She had spawned a few times with another male and I tried to get a different pairing going to I swapped males. It was chaos for a while with the female spawning and keeping the male away then he finally lost patience and forced her to let him spawn with her then he went nuts and wasn't letting her near the spawn and he wasn't fanning the eggs just keeping her away. It was all nuts to say the least. But finally, all subsided and the 2 had a number of successful spawns without all the drama. So the key is how both fish are acting which let's you know what they are thinking.

Hope this helps

 

[sinibotia]

Not a dumb question at all.
Angels usually will do more testing ( lip locking) before their first spawn than any other spawn. The females want to make sure the males are the right ones to spawn with. Once that bond is created, they generally won't go through that process again unless they are faced with a new partner. As for how long that will take, "It takes as long as it takes for one of them to be satisfied." ( Welcome to married life. JK) It's not an exact science but they generally won't go at for more than a week or so. It's important tho, that both fish are cleaning the slate. THAT'S the sign that spawning should be soon ( usually within a couple of days at the most). If only the female is cleaning, there is a possibility that she has rejected the male and is cleaning the slate for her to lay her eggs without the male. He may get lucky and be allowed to get into the act and, depending on your female, it all may work out. If you read back towards the beginning(ish) of this thread, I had a similar experience with my 1/2 Black male and Zebra Lace female. She had spawned a few times with another male and I tried to get a different pairing going to I swapped males. It was chaos for a while with the female spawning and keeping the male away then he finally lost patience and forced her to let him spawn with her then he went nuts and wasn't letting her near the spawn and he wasn't fanning the eggs just keeping her away. It was all nuts to say the least. But finally, all subsided and the 2 had a number of successful spawns without all the drama. So the key is how both fish are acting which let's you know what they are thinking.

Hope this helps

This pair has spawned before, although between their last spawn and now they were shipped (I bought them as a pair). As I type this I see both of them cleaning the slate so I won't worry about them being a pair. Just curious about what to expect. I do hope they spawn soon! Got any tricks?

 

[Andy Sager]

This pair has spawned before, although between their last spawn and now they were shipped (I bought them as a pair). As I type this I see both of them cleaning the slate so I won't worry about them being a pair. Just curious about what to expect. I do hope they spawn soon! Got any tricks?

If they are seriously cleaning the slate, I'd just leave things be but if they are occasionally cleaning, without a real purpose ( a peck here and a scrape there), then water changes usually do the trick. Doesn't have to be massive. In fact, if you change too much water you can take them right out of the mood. 10%-15% of volume is all it should take to put them over the edge and start spawning. Add cooler water not hotter.

 

[sinibotia]

If they are seriously cleaning the slate, I'd just leave things be but if they are occasionally cleaning, without a real purpose ( a peck here and a scrape there), then water changes usually do the trick. Doesn't have to be massive. In fact, if you change too much water you can take them right out of the mood. 10%-15% of volume is all it should take to put them over the edge and start spawning.

Any temperature difference- warmer or colder water added back a la inducing Corydoras?

Ann and I have been watching intently for the past few nights. They seem to clean it seriously on occasion but more often without purpose. So I might try a water change tonight.

 

[Andy Sager]

Any temperature difference- warmer or colder water added back a la inducing Corydoras?

Ann and I have been watching intently for the past few nights. They seem to clean it seriously on occasion but more often without purpose. So I might try a water change tonight.

You beat me to my edit. Use cooler water.

 

[sinibotia]

The cool water change has them doing a bunch of lip locking and slate cleaning already! Fingers crossed, thanks for the expertise!

Sent from my XT830C using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[Andy Sager]

The cool water change has them doing a bunch of lip locking and slate cleaning already! Fingers crossed, thanks for the expertise!

Sent from my XT830C using Aquarium Advice mobile app

Geez, that was quick. Good luck

 

[Andy Sager]

Today was water change and rearranging day.

The Black Lace veils were moved from the divided 30 into their own breeder tank on Breeder's Row. Hopefully, with seeing other fish as competitors, they will start spawning on a regular basis. The other fish from the tank were put in with the Zebra Lace Veil male and that tank now holds all the fish that are starting to show some orange color in their marbling. It appears that the remaining unclaimed Black lace Veil must have been a male because he was the only fish the ZLV male went after and attacked. Guesswork not necessary. The other fish are definitely egg laying females from other pairs so no guessing there either.

The Male Pleco has been spending most of the day and last night in the tube. I assume that means a spawning should be soon. I also set up a small tank with a pair of Albino Cories to see if that helps any in getting some baby cories. The Sterbai trio continue to inhabit the 15 gal breeder tank but show no signs of interest on spawning. Maybe today's water change will change that but not counting on it.

I also prepared one of the 75 gal vats for the 1/2 black spawn to grow out in. Going to try a lighting trick to see if I can get them to set the pattern this time. The ones from before lost the black and the 1 in the picture that was really dark, now is just a 1/4 black. You can still see the subdued black coloration in the scales but the lighter pattern is set and it won't get much darker no matter what I do. These other fish are young enough that their definite pattern can still be changed. Fingers crossed.