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-   -   Flame Angel big spots on fins (http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f16/flame-angel-big-spots-on-fins-141839.html)

bix 02-22-2011 12:41 PM

Flame Angel big spots on fins
 
Hello all,

I got a new flame angel, has been in quarantine since last Friday.

The fish looks healthy, even eating right out of my hand! :D

Thing I noticed is that on its fins on the side I can see what looks to be big spots. I've seen ich before and this doesn't look like it but it is so hard to see cause the fish moves around so much.

It's hard for me to get a good look even with the naked eye so a picture is going to be near impossible (especially since the fish doesn't like the camera) but I will try.

The fish seems to be rubbing up against the glass, but always in the exact same spot. Almost looks like it is trying to escape more than 'scratch' against the glass though. The fish will shove its nose into the glass, wiggle its tail a few times, and then have a quick dart of speed right into the glass. Like I said it is the exact same spot on the glass every time.

I will try to get a picture now, just hoping that somebody might have an idea of what it might be?

What would you guys do?

bix 02-22-2011 03:12 PM

OK so after looking into this further I think I might have found out what happened, let me know if this is possible.

The 'blotches' (for lack of a better word) aren't white, it looks like damage to the fin (but not the edges like fin rot.)

I also noticed a white thing kindof hanging off the side of the fish. I found out that it is possibly a damaged preopercular spine:

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/mrp/salmo...us_armatus.jpg

Now, on to my theory. The angel was caught at the LFS in a net. The guy caught 2 tangs and the angel at the same time and brought them up. There was a lot of thrashing going on.

Could it be possible that my flame got damaged during that little incident?

pat8you 02-22-2011 03:23 PM

Hard to tell. Is the white thing look like cotton almost? If so look up Lymphocystis. It's not that uncommon when a fish is just out of the LFS.

As for the blotches, a lot of parasites are clear or opaque so they can be really difficult to see. See if you can get a good look. They are round and small ( around 1/16 - 1/8") and most are pretty flat. A lot of times they will go for the eyes as well so look close at the fishes eyes and see if there are any cloudy spots.

bix 02-22-2011 03:27 PM

I know I'm not being much help without a picture :(

I don't see it as white at all, or as a bump. In fact I can't even see it unless the fish has its fins out and the light reflects through the fin. If the fin is clamped against its side I can't see any spots at all.

I did look at the fish's eyes when I noticed this last night and didn't notice anything but I will try to have a better look tonight.

bix 02-22-2011 07:35 PM

Ok, so on second glance the one eye is definitely kinda messed up..

Has a cloudy spot.

Do I have to medicate the tank?

Just tested the water

ammonia - 0
nitrite - 0
nitrate - 20

I know the nitrate is a little high, but could this have caused the parasite?

I'm going to do a 50%ish water change to see if it helps tomorrow.

bix 02-22-2011 09:16 PM

The more and more I read and keep checking out the eye I'm thinking it might be some kind of injury.

The angel was in a tank full of flame angels and yellow tangs. When the guy threw food in there it was all yellow tangs eating and my angel. the other angels were hiding. That's what I based my decision on haha

I should have checked the fish out better at the LFS, I really didn't notice it until the fish became unshy (to the point of being as friendly as my puffer) and I started to get really good looks.

The eye isn't really that noticable and the fish looked very healthy so I thought it was good.

I'm trying to get a picture but its so small and the fish is so quick its almost impossible. Makes me wonder how some people on here get the shots that they do.

I also just noticed that when the fish is rubbing against the glass it is actually on the side that is not 'cloudy.'

I'm going to do my bigish PWC tomorrow and hope for the best, but any other ideas/comments are very welcome!

melosu58 02-22-2011 09:23 PM

If it`s a cloudy eye that`s usually a bacterial infection and can be treated with just pristine water parameters. Several frequent PWC`s should help. As far as the splotches it`s so hard to tell without a pic.

pat8you 02-23-2011 03:15 PM

When i worked in a fish store we had a lot of trouble with our fish coming in with flukes. They are parasites like i was describing before. They were not difficult to get rid of. A freshwater dip works really well on them. They will turn cloudy and fall off in about 30-45 seconds. Make sure you do some reading on the proper way to do a freshwater dip though. It does stress the fish and can be much more stressful if not done properly.

Bacterial infections like melosu mentioned are aso a possibility as well. In my experience (which is not all that extensive) bacterial is going to cover a large portion or all of they eye. The flukes were smaller and had more defined edges (between a clear healthy looking part of the eye and the cloudy part which is either the infection or the fluke). If you see other spots on the fish that look like the flukes then it is probably not an infection. They are more difficult to see on the rest of the body though. It might take a couple minutes of watching the fish.

Hope that helps.

bix 02-25-2011 07:50 PM

OK so it is definitely flukes..

I just gave the angel a freshwater bath (more stressful for me or the fish??)

Seemed to take it fine eventually. After about 5 min the fish started spitting out what looked like little seeds? Is it normal for the fish to spit them out?

Also the eye that was affected there was something that started coming out and eventually the fish shook it off!!

Is it normal for the fish's eye to still look a little messed up after doing this?

I'm going away for a few days so I'm going to just leave the fish be, just thought I would update the thread and thank you for the help!

austinsdad 02-25-2011 08:00 PM

2 tangs netted with him definitely in my opinion (yeah, both) :) likely cut him up real good. Ya know the other name for the tang is the surgeon fish for a real good reason. I'm almost guaranteeing the gang razor blades in the net started his problems. I'd take him back and ask the same guy who netted them to really try to understand what likely happened, be considerate of your calm, but certain manner, and give you store credit for another fish or something.


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