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-   -   150-180gal on second floor, too much weight? (http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/150-180gal-on-second-floor-too-much-weight-62707.html)

ChileRelleno 11-06-2005 02:57 AM

150-180gal on second floor, too much weight?
 
I'm going to be upgrading to either a 150 or 180gal tank-n-stand.
I want to put it upstairs, on the second story of our house, where our 75gal is currently located.
Now I know I'm talking about upwards of one ton (2000-2400lbs) concentrated on a 12sq ft area, but.....
The area in which I would like to place it is a new addition and well built, with the area beneath it being supported by what was once a outside structural wall, that is the current floor joists in that area are supported by a original load bearing structural wall as a center support.
I want to locate the 150/180gal tank over this specific area, I plan on re-enforcing the subfloor with a sheet of 3/4"+ plywood.
I also plan a stand with three full length top-n-bottom runners with vertical supports so as to evenly distribute the load.

What'ya think,
any contractors,architects or engineers out there want to give me some reccomendations?

Tiffi 11-06-2005 08:23 AM

I've got no idea if it's too much weight or not. I would call the contractor though to make SURE it will hold it.

All those pools of water 8O , a soaked, broken floor 8O 8O , etc, that's nothing for me, that's why I would call and ask :wink: .

fishyrican 11-06-2005 10:56 AM

Check out this excellent article:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/article...ium_weight.php

Fishyfanatic 11-06-2005 12:51 PM

The dimension of the tank places a big part. For example, our 150T I would not put on a second story because the lbs per square foot is so high. But a 150L would not be an issue. I'd put it on a second story in a heartbeat. Do you know the lb per square foot?

bound_for_obx 11-06-2005 01:06 PM

From what you are describing I'd bet that you will be fine. But for piece of mind, why don't you contact the contractor that did your addition and ask them what they think?

Also as a side note, When doing new house construction, we routinely placed whole hacks of plywood and 2-by stock on the floor trusses near the edge of the house.

DugOut 11-06-2005 03:54 PM

I build houses for a living and the average floor joist is no less than a 2"x 6". The pre-fabs come with a 1"x6,8,10" vertcal piece of partical board with nailing boards on top and bottom. These joist may look weak but are also very strong. If theres any worries about the weight of your aquarium. Check the direction that the floor joist are running and set the aquarium cross joist. This stand will most likely cross 4 or more joist, which breaks down the weight of the mass into 1/4's. You'll be fine. I often get the question from customers. "will we be able to use our kingsize waterbed on the second floor". Its not the weight you really should be concerned about because building codes were well thought out. Its what happens with the water if it suddenly escapes! :drain:

tl123tsk 11-06-2005 11:36 PM

i would definitely consult a professional (with insurance coverage), be it an architect, contractor, or structural engineer.

i am a structural engineer, having been involved in buildings from brand new skyscrapers to 19th century buildings. a tank typically weighs 80-100 lbs per square foot, while most building codes require only 30-40 lbs per square foot for houses.

HOWEVER, building code requirements are moot considering:
1. most houses were never built "right" to begin with from an engineer's perspective. i've run load checks for some such houses, including my own. many (ALL) of them do not satisfy the loading and deflection requirements.
2. most localities do not subject houses to building code requirements, at least for the structural loading aspects

the only thing i can say is: proceed with caution. the only place i'd put such a tank, without consulting a professional, is on the lowest floor where the slab basically just sits on the soil ("slab-on-grade").

Kinetix 11-07-2005 12:45 PM

tl123tsk, if houses were only rated for 30 or 40 pounds per square foot, they wouldn't support people.

ChileRelleno 11-07-2005 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinetix
tl123tsk, if houses were only rated for 30 or 40 pounds per square foot, they wouldn't support people.

Your confused about the actual way things work...
Read this, http://www.cichlid-forum.com/article...ium_weight.php
Quote:

your home most likely has the capacity to safely support a uniform live load of at least 40 psf. But keep in mind that this design live load is theoretically spread uniformly over the entire floor from wall to wall throughout your entire house. It is not a maximum load on any given area of the floor, it is just a theoretical average load that is used to design the floor for loads that are initially unknown. Some people find this confusing because in reality it is not the floor pressure (in psf) that matters at all, it is the floor load in pounds that really creates the stress in the primary structural framing members.

DugOut 11-07-2005 04:47 PM

I'm not trying to argue the fact but if one square foot (12"x12"x12) of water weighs 80-100 lbs. That would mean that one gallon of milk that you would pick up from the store should weigh atleast 50 lbs. Is that possible? As I mention before, If you are concerned about the weight, than lay it cross joist. I've installed garden tubs on the second and third floors if you count the basement. Factor this as weight...Tub; 300+ lbs....100-150+ gallons of water @ around 5 lbs per gallon...Then the two home owners relaxing in it after setting the kids to bed 150 lbs. actually 350 lbs but in water, body mass becomes atleast 70% less. Thats why its so easy to pick someone up under water. Totals around 1200 lbs. If they were standing at the side of the tub waiting for the water to draw...there would be 1400 lbs. on the floor. Lets say they were very heavy weight people- never mind, you should have the picture. Now lets take the weight of water thats in 180 gals.x 5 lbs. per gallon ( if a gallon even weighs that much)= 900 lbs.,..+ 150 lbs. for the stand= 1,050 lbs. the weight of four football players sitting at a card table! Get the picture.

Rocket2001 11-07-2005 05:04 PM

Hey...take a chance... :roll:

ChileRelleno 11-07-2005 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DugOut
I'm not trying to argue the fact but if one square foot (12"x12"x12) of water weighs 80-100 lbs. That would mean that one gallon of milk that you would pick up from the store should weigh atleast 50 lbs. Is that possible?
As I mention before, If you are concerned about the weight, than lay it cross joist.
Now lets take the weight of water thats in 180 gals.x 5 lbs. per gallon ( if a gallon even weighs that much)= 900 lbs.,..+ 150 lbs. for the stand= 1,050 lbs. the weight of four football players sitting at a card table! Get the picture.

Quote:

Results computed by FishTank Online November 7, 2005, 5:17 pm EST
http://boonedocks.net/fishtank

Water Type..............................Freshwater
Material................................Glass
Tank Overhead Shape.....................Rectangular
Length..................................73.24 in.
Width...................................23.24 in.
Height..................................23.24 in.
Wall-thickness..........................0.38 in.
Volume..................................166.75 gal (US)
Tank Material Weight....................219.69 lbf
Water Volume............................157.48 gal (US).........gallons
Water Weight............................1310.40 lbf.................8.30lbs per gallon
Substrate Type..........................Small Diameter Rocks
Average Substrate Depth.................2.00 in.
Substrate Weight........................176.35 lbf
Approximate Total Weight................1706.44 lbf...add 200lbs for everthing else = gross weight 1857lbs
Room Air Temperature....................76.00 °F
Water Temperature.......................77.00 °F
Heating Capability Required.............19.37 W
Approx. Total Fish Length...............137.97 in.
Mass Required for 1 PPM.................0.00 m

Water Type: Freshwater Material: Glass

(Measure from the inside of the tank)

Tank Overhead Shape: Rectangular

Length/Diameter: 71.24in. Width: 23.24 in. Height:23.24 in.
Wall-thickness: .38 in.

Substrate Type: Small Diameter Rocks Average Substrate Depth: 2 in.

Room Air Temperature: 76 °F Water Temperature: 77 °F

Length:Inches (in.) Volume: Gallons US (gal (US) Mass: Pounds Mass (lbm) Weight: Pounds Force (lbf) Heating: Watts (W)
Temperature:Fahrenheit (°F)
[color=red]Its not a cubic foot of water thats being weighed, its the total pounds per square foot being transferred to a square foot of floor.
The tank stand covers 12 square feet, it will fairly evenly distribute it out, so 1857lbf divided by 12sqf = 154.75lbf. [/quote]
Perpendicular to joist line and over the bearing wall was always the plan.
A gal of water weighs much more than 5.lbs, its weighs 8.30lbs.

There are so many forces at play determining whether the structure will support almost a ton in one spot, possibly for many years. Time plays a big role in accumulated force. So many forces in play, shear force, blunt shear force, modulus elasticity, deflection... yada yada ect ect...

I've already come to a conclusion so its a moot point now,
thank you everyone :D


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