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-   -   Betta elitism? (http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/betta-elitism-73617.html)

Pinky 04-07-2006 02:30 AM

Betta elitism?
 
so from what i've read it seems like the common veiltail is considered the white trash of the betta world. so they are seemingly ignored by breeders, i understand that because they are so common people will overlook them when shown a halfmoon or crowntail, but i still see them as some of the most beautiful fish out there. i know i can't be alone lol

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/9216/fishy28di.jpg

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/742...endensx7me.jpg
^not my fish btw lol^

tropicfishman 04-07-2006 04:57 AM

Iono why they are considered the white trash of betta world, in my neck of the woods being considered white trash is an honor, I think they are ebautiful, you've struck a chord of curiosity with me now about why breeders hate them lol

Devilishturtles 04-07-2006 06:48 AM

I think the breeders are targeting those hardcore betta enthusiasts. These people have likely kept their fair share of veiltails, and are looking for something truly unique. At the present time, that's the halfmoons and crowntails. That's my guess anyways. I still love my regular veiltail, and I didn't pay $50 to get him. ;)

Puriti 04-07-2006 07:00 AM

I've been finding crowntailed (kind of) bettas at petsmart now with the slightly spikey edges on the fins for the veiltail bettas but I love any kinda betta and honestly some of the crowntails and half moons out their scare me...especially the crowntails with REALLY big spikes ._. My teacher has one...he looks like he'd eat your face off lol and the halfmoon she has looks like the tail could be a blanket for it at night X3

nikipike 04-07-2006 08:40 AM

1 Attachment(s)
One of the problems w/ veiltail is it's dominate.

I have several pet store females i'd love to cross on my CT male because of their color, but I won't because they will all throw VT fry.

Out of my 10 bettas, 3 of my males are VT & 4 of my females are VT carriers. I do have 2 DTs & 1 DDR CT that I bought as I earn my own money & wanted some interesting bettas.

My DDR CT is considered trash right along w/ the VTs. His a blue grizzle & grizzle is very frown upon, I love the pattern though.

BTW, 2 of the bettas posted uptop aren't 100% veiltail. It's veiltail crossed w/ something like a ST or HM to create the "blunt" end. True VTs have "pinched" ends. One of my "VTs" is like that.

Viperboy 04-07-2006 11:30 AM

wow so many bettas ... i actually just bought my girl friend one for her apartment so maybe she will get into the fish thing along with me ... ill try to get some pics up sometime

Ray

Pinky 04-07-2006 12:12 PM

tropicfishman lol,
yeah i can't remeber what site i was on but they were sort of slandering the lil guys, the rest of the breeders pages just ignored them for the most part

Devilishturtles they (breeders) do the same thing with snakes, like with nelsons milk snakes no one seems to want a normal unless it's at least het (carrier) for amelinism so yeah i see that piont.

Puriti i've seen those too, some are really pretty

nikipike beautiful betta ^_^
btw what exactly is drizzle? is it ununiform speckly color?

i need to put up a pic of my new lil betta, hes this beautiful terquise-cerulean, he looks like hes got some CT'ing on his dorsol and anal fins and his tails weird too, i guess he's not a VT like i thought lol

Viperboygood luck with getting your GF addicted lol

QTOFFER 04-07-2006 12:25 PM

I've never seen a betta I didn't like.
What I love about this species is the fact that each fish is so unique in finnage and coloration. Show me two veil tail bettas that look exactly the same!

04-07-2006 01:25 PM

I love ALL bettas! I have had several veiltailed bettas! My favorite is the crowntail but I didn't pay a TON of money for him. Just $5. I don't know WHY the veiltailes are considered "betta trash". They are VERY beautiful!!

Pinky 04-07-2006 02:00 PM

nikipike if you cross you veiltail females with your male, then breed the female offspring back to him won't the crowntail trait show up? and since it's recesive like albinism (in cornsnakes anyway lol) wouldn't your CT's only produce CT's provided they are bred to other CT's? or are fish genetics really weird and theres something i missed?

DepotFish 04-07-2006 03:09 PM

Even the most hardcore breeders don't think veiltails are ugly. It is just that they are the easy fish for uneducated people to pick up at walmart. It like getting a designer breed of dog and supporting a puppy mill and then claiming it off as a purebred by giving it a purebred nickname like a "puggle". Breeders work long and hard to get proper genes that will pass purely from one generation to the next in colour and form. One veiltail would ruin the whole breeding line. I find that most everybody hates comets, so much so that even the nicest of aquarium websites recommends them for a fish cycle and then they can be tossed afterward. Comets are hard to take care of in a tank setting and to breed, but it doesn't matter because they are sold as feeder fish and given away in tiny bowls in carnivals. I think breeders would like veiltails better if they weren't sold as "cup" fish to every schmo that wants a pretty decoration with no care needed. I also think that store quality crowntails are in the same category as veiltails. Breeders work hard to get proper finnage in their bettas and now stores are selling poorly finned crowntails out of cups too.

Pinky 04-07-2006 03:48 PM

ok it makes sence now lol so it's like lepord geckos then.

and sorry bout all the reptile referances but thats pretty much how i learned about genetics lol

04-07-2006 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DepotFish
I also think that store quality crowntails are in the same category as veiltails. Breeders work hard to get proper finnage in their bettas and now stores are selling poorly finned crowntails out of cups too.


I got mine out of a cup(he's a crowntail) and he is exquisit! Although maybe not for breeders.

I don't think it really matters what kind of betta you get if you aren't a breeder. If you love your fish and take care of him that's all that matters.

Pinky 04-07-2006 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bettagirl7

I got mine out of a cup(he's a crowntail) and he is exquisit! Although maybe not for breeders.

I don't think it really matters what kind of betta you get if you aren't a breeder. If you love your fish and take care of him that's all that matters.

well said ^_^
my lil betta is from wal*mart and hes beautiful, healthy too!

04-07-2006 04:23 PM

That is sad that they feel that the vail tail is trash. What a lot of breeder forget is that if it wasn't for the vail tail then there woudn't be the crowntail of even double tail. It was breeding a finage pattern they liked from a vail tail fry. To a female with a finage pattern they liked also that got them the corwn tail.
I' breed bettas and house 2 vail tail ,4 crown tail ,2half moonplakat , 3 double tails. My faverite out of them all is a young 5 month old vail tail that I bred his parents for there color to try and get a black vail fry. will I got a 3/4 black out of this last fry { I'll post pictures of him } When he get's older I'll bred him to a 3/4 black female I got from the same fry. Then maybe I'll get my 100% black vail tail from them.
Also nikipike when you bred vail tail to crown tail your going to get a 50% fry of comb tails and 50% vail tail with a spike tail. Most all VT/CT fry will produce a beautiful comb tails. I have a fry of 780 { yes 780 largest fry I've ever seen } That's CT/VT I can't wait for them to get older as The male is beautiful with full mask and has mearble marking of a light pink and baby blue. The female is vail tail marble { from a fry of CT/VT } with spiked finage her colors or also a light pink with marble white markings.
This is the Dad from whitch the madness started {25 fry later and color I creatted }
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...c/efe05e49.jpg
This is the young male black { I bred to pull the black out in him }
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...6/ef892841.jpg
note the half red half blue eyes
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...b/ef89285c.jpg
Some of the crown tail vail tail mix fry { 19 days old,780 of them }
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...d/ef892837.jpg
I'll post more in the next post. LOL

04-07-2006 04:49 PM

Ok out of all the fys I've had I take two males and two females from the fry. That has the finage and the coors I'm looking for and grow them to breed. At frist I didn't beleave in breeding sblins. LOL That's changed as I found they breed easyer and produce larger frys.
Here's a few more pictures of my stock and some of the females I've hand picked. For there markings and color and finage. I'm going to try and bred til I get a soild BLACK male either crown tail or vail tail. I'm trying this because I've never seen a soild black vail tail.
Ok here's something an old timer breeder of betta told me and I want to know if any of ya'll have either heard it or beleave it. "He told me that if you don't name your betta then it will dyi." So I name ever one of the males I keep. LOL I'm a beleaver in miths bad. LOL
Here's "Tude " he's named that because of his addatude it's all bad. LOL
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...7/efd36288.jpg
Some of the new guys and gals
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...7/efe05e32.jpg
Another of Tude
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...4/efd36203.jpg
Some of the older fry female
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...6/efda013c.jpg
Another one of the new fry
[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/pdfd79de6d1b4d5
debf68ced83bc928d4/efe05e2d.jpg[/img]

I'm going to get my soild black and when I do I'm going to make head lines s he's going to be breed from top of the line fry. The best from each fry best finnage best color and best marking from the top in each fry. LOL My saying is never give up on the color you want and you'll get it this may be a long ways down the line . But I will get it.

Pinky 04-07-2006 04:51 PM

oh wow hes amazing! i love the rays of blue in the tail.

i always heard that your fish die if you name them lol

04-07-2006 06:47 PM

I always name my bettas and ALL my other fish :).

Weasal F., a black betta would be awesome! I hope you have one soon!

I only have one betta right now :( Trying to convince someone to let me have a bigger thank for him, then get another, and another..lol

04-07-2006 06:56 PM

Here is some pics of my crowntail. I hope they are ok size because I had trouble resizing it and uploading it. ALso, sorry that they are so blurry!

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/3839/p31801806ue.jpg

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/3889/p31801798iw.jpg

Pinky 04-07-2006 07:05 PM

i saw his pic in the gallery hes lovely ^__^
and you can use imageshack they have a rezizing feature


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