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crazyred 08-29-2006 03:17 PM

I think it's serious this time :)
Okay, my GBR's have laid eggs YET again. They used the same sword plant and I can see the eggs much more clearly this time because they used a different leaf that is closer to the glass.

They laid the eggs on Sunday night. The eggs had turned noticably darker (but still seem translucent) when I woke up this morning and I noticed a few "whiteys". When I came home for lunch, I looked again and the few "whiteys" were gone and the now darker eggs have a teeny tiny black "line" in the center. If I were to compare it to anything it would be the way a cat's eye looks when the black pupil in the middle is so thin it's almost non-existent......does any of this make sense???? If I think I'm correct in what I see these might just be the babies inside the eggs right?

If so, what now. I'm scared these will hatch (hopeful) and I'm worried that the babies might be eaten. Will the mom & pop protect the fry the way they have protected the eggs? I don't have a tank at the moment, but I guess I could get one, I'm just not sure how to go about removing such tiny fry from a 55 gallon tank. Should I try to remove the leaf now before they hatch??? Please advise.

Jchillin 08-29-2006 05:33 PM

Congrats Red, you have described a developing embryo perfectly! IMO, with the stock you have in that tank, you will have no choice in moving them. Mom and Pop will try their level best but you have some opportunistic fish in there, especially the other apistos.

Check with Lonewolf, he has been successful with moving them.

bs6749 08-29-2006 08:18 PM

Yes, move them now as they should start to hatch on Wednesday or so. I would cut the entire leaf off of the plant and while keeping the eggs submerged in water, remove them from the tank and place them into another one. I just did this today with my GBR eggs. It is important to keep the eggs wet and to NOT let them touch the air! I would use something like a butter dish in sizh and place the leaf and water in that and acclimate the eggs to the new tank (if you get a new one). I would also suggest using as much water as possible from the current tank that the eggs are in for the new tank in order to minimize the stress on the eggs. You will want water flow near the eggs so maybe buy an air pump and airstone. Also add 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons of aquarium water TWICE a day to help rid the eggs of any fungus. Also remove white eggs as they are bad. Try using a toothpick for this. I have left about 6-7 spawns in the tank with my GBR's and NONE of them were successful in getting to the fry stage. I think they ate them all. If you have any questions just ask and I will try to help.

crazyred 08-29-2006 09:31 PM

Okay, I have a buddy bringing me a tank tomorrow so I can set-up a grow out tank. I will use a filter off of one of my existing tanks to avoid any kind of cycle. I will get the sword leave out just as you described and go from there. I hope they don't hatch before I can get the tank set-up tomorrow. 8O The parents already got rid of all the white eggs.....the only ones left all seem to be brownish with little embryos inside. YAY! I hope I can time this right....wish me luck.

EDIT: Well, later turned into to sooner tonight. I looked and noticed that a bunch of the eggs were wiggling, and mom and pop were trying really hard to keep them on the leaf. So I evacuated my 10 gallon ACF tank. I put the dwarf gourami in the 29 and am hoping he doesn't get done in by my opaline, and I put the ACF in one of those critter keepers with plenty of water. I know for a fact that he will be fine in there for at least 24 hours (probably longer)....anyway, they'll hold until my bud comes through with the tank or I go to the pet store and buy another one. :roll:

Calling Dr. Phishtank!!!!! MTS strikes again!

Anyway, I got the leaf in the 10 after filling it with 100% tank water from the 55 I can still see the eggs moving on the leaf. Where do I go from here???? HELP!

Lonewolfblue 08-30-2006 12:05 PM

Sounds like you are doing good. If you have Hydrogen Peroxide 3%, I'd give the 10G a 5ml dose of HP to help with removing any fungus. Either that or a dose of Pimafix.

Once they hatch, you have about 7 days to decide on what to feed them. They will feed off their egg sacks the first 7 days or so, so no real need to feed them yet. Since they are so small, I prefer using egg yolk. It's easy to do. Just boil an egg, take a little of the hard yolk and squish it around in a bowl of water. Then use an eye dropper or something similar and you can spot feed them, just a small squirt in the area of the fry. You will need to do this for about 2 weeks, then they should be big enough to eat fry food like Hikari First Bites.

Also, how are the water parameters? It's best you do no water changes for the first 4-6 weeks. Each time you do a PWC, even a 10% like I did, I lost over half the fry. So it's critical you don't overfeed.

crazyred 08-30-2006 12:35 PM

I'll check the params when I get home later. I took all the water for the 10 from the 55 so I wouldn't have to acclimate. Usually my 55 runs like this: 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and like 5 or less ppm on nitrates. Totally spot on, but I'll check tonight just in case.

One thing I have noticed on some of them, the tails are out, but they still have their heads in the eggs. Is this normal? They look like sperm. hehehehe

Lonewolfblue 08-30-2006 12:40 PM

Well, if it's water from the 55G, you are pretty well set then. That's a good idea there. I think you'll be fine not doing PWC's now for 4 or 5 weeks in that tank, til they get big enough to handle them.

Well, it's off to work. Looks like I may be a couple minutes late, got to run. Will check back again tonight.....

Home from work. How are things looking?

Another thought, do you happen to have any floating plants? Or even Water Sprite or Wisteria? Adding a little plants will also help keep nitrates down.

Lonewolfblue 09-02-2006 03:52 AM

How are things going? Eggs start hatching yet?

crazyred 09-02-2006 06:28 PM

Hi LWB, yep, they've hatched out and are now starting to swim. They are so tiny I can't even see their fins :) I can see eyes....they basically look like tiny tadpoles, and there are a BUNCH of them. Boy, if I can raise them all to sexable, shippable size it will be a windfall for me! LOL I just love the fish though.....not looking to get rich.

Anyway, should I start feeding egg yolk now? I think it might be time. How often do I need to feed them?

Lonewolfblue 09-02-2006 10:17 PM

If they are getting up off the bottom and swimming around, yes, I would start feeding egg yolk. Just a tiny little spurt is all you need from an eyedropper. It will look like it all disolves into nothing and you can't see it, but they can, and you may even see them dash for things you can't see yourself, lol. And if you have lots of them, then might need a couple spurts of the egg yolk in different areas. Just use your judgement on how and where to squirt the egg yolk. It's pretty fun watching, especially after about another week when they start shaping more like fish, and you see then darting at the egg yolk.

crazyred 09-02-2006 11:33 PM

Yeah, I did decide that they needing feeding. They were pecking at the green spot algae on the tank glass. LOL They seemed desperate. So, I cooked up an egg and mashed a little into some water and squirted a little in with my med dropper. I saw them eating even though I can't see their mouths. LOL I wish I could take a pic, but it wouldn't do any can barely see them. LOL There are a LOT!!! I'm way deep into lots of GBR fry. I'm am SO flippin' excited. This is the coolest experience ever. What a rush!!!

Oh OFTEN do I need to feed them? I dont' want them to be hungry.

Lonewolfblue 09-03-2006 01:59 AM

Morning and evening is good. That's what I did. Since they need the strength and food for growing, it wouldn't be good to miss too many meals. Some feed 3 times a day, but I don't think it's needed, and will increase the water parameters more quickly. You think it's a blast now, just wait til they get old enough to tell each other apart and start making kind of a pecking order, lol. It's awsome to see all the different stages they go through. Have you gotten any fry food yet? They love Hikari First Bites. I didn't even go through a half of a package on my first go around, so all you would need is 1 of the small packages. How I did it was dipped my finger in the tank water, shook off the excess water on my finger, slightly dipped it in the package of fry food, then dipped my finger into the tank again. That gives more than enough food, lol. But don't start feeding that food til about 2 to 2 1/2 weeks old. Then they should be big enough to eat it, then you can switch between egg yolks and First Bites if you like.

Just 1 package of this will be enough food for 2-3 hatches....

crazyred 09-03-2006 02:45 AM

Oh yeah, I already have a package of Hikari First Bites. LOL That's what I used to feed my platy fry. I'm totally prepared for the next couple of weeks. I figure the egg I cooked up today will last a while and then I will switch to the Hikari baby food. These babies are SO cute. I am having so much fun!!! I love this. Thank LWB. What would I do without you?

Lonewolfblue 09-03-2006 04:51 AM

Also, if you are keeping egg yolk solution in the fridge, they recommend replacing with new every 3-4 days. Won't want to get the babies sick. I just made an egg a day, fed the babies and ate the rest myself, lol.

Another thing to add, right now your babies are neither sex. Depending on the water conditions like ph, temp, etc, you can actually set it to have more females, more males, etc. If I remember right, for GBR's, lower temp and higher ph will produce more females than males. They say for that, the temp should be 74-76 and ph of 8.0 I believe. Warmer temps will give you more males than females. Not sure how this works, but that's what I've heard. Since this is your first time, don't experiment with parameters, lol. You are going to have a great time with these fry.

crazyred 09-03-2006 02:37 PM

Wow, that's very interesting. Hmmmm.....I think I'll be happy with growing these fish up to matter what sex they are. My pH sists right at 7.2, but I do have the temp up fairly high because I have heard the ram fry need warm water. It's a little over 80 in there. Maybe I should turn it down a tad.

Lonewolfblue 09-03-2006 02:49 PM

I would just keep it stable at whatever temp you feel. You'll still get a bunch of male and female. :)

crazyred 09-04-2006 04:47 AM

There are so many fry in my tank I can't help but think that I'll have a good balance of M/F. LOL I can not BELEIVE how many babies I have. :D

Lonewolfblue 09-04-2006 01:45 PM

That's great......

crazyred 09-04-2006 04:24 PM

How are your babies coming along? What can I look forward to in the upcoming weeks?

Lonewolfblue 09-04-2006 10:10 PM

What you can look forward to is fast growth, lol. In 2 months, they will be approx 1/2 inch. After about 1 month, you will start seeing the distinct markings, the blue speckling, and more. then after 6 weeks, you may even be able to tell sex by the pink bellies, and after 2 months, you will be able to sex them.

At about 2 months, they will be big enough to put in with other smaller fish like tetras. They may get picked on a little by the tetras, but after a day, they will take on their cichlid behaviour and dish it back to the tetras, which are over twice their size, lol.

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