Bacterial bloom?

[Zuzkots]

Hi all! This is my first post in this forum.

I'm a newbie and have a 64 litre tank. When I was setting it up, I used tap water with dechlorinator. The water was crystal clear until I added live plants, then it clouded over for two days and cleared again. I let the tank run for a week and took a sample of my water to Pets At Home to check the levels yesterday. The guy said my water was perfect and let me buy 3 platys, 2 mollies and a male betta (he said the betta will be ok with them, but now I hear and read that they shouldn't be mixed). I added Filter Start to the water before adding fish. Was this a mistake? Should I have added that when I set up the tank? (It says I should add it every two days for seven doses.) The water is now cloudy again, more than before, in fact so cloudy I have to go close to the tank to see the fish. I'm guessing this is a bacterial bloom - should I worry or is this normal after adding Filter Start? Is it safe for my fish to just wait it out or should I do a partial water change? They are swimming mostly just below the surface, although few of them have explored the bottom of the tank and didn't seem bothered. They don't seem to be gasping for air, but just to be sure I put the Venturi on to aerate the water properly.
The ammonia levels were perfect yesterday - can the BB spike them up to a dangerous level within 24hrs? Should I take a sample to the store again today (can't afford a kit just now)? The guy said to bring a sample in 1-2 weeks but that seems too long to me.
Also, do I wait with feeding the fish? Will the flakes spike it up even higher?
I want to do everything I can for my fish to be happy and healthy. I wish I didn't listen to the guy when he said the tank will be ready for fish after a week.

 

[Zuzkots]

I decided to do a 30% water change and the fish seem happier now, swimming all over the fish tank and eating bits of live plants.

 

[phishfriend]

Ok, it sounds like the tank is new, correct? Meaning it only been running a couple of weeks. If that the case your tank has not cycled.

So, you did the right thing with the water change. For sure! Do you have a testing kit? You need to be the person testing your system. I know its natural to want to trust the local fish guy cus he's ...well the local fish guy but don't!!

Also, what size is the tank?

 

[Zuzkots]

Thank you for the reply!

Yes, the tank is new, it's 64 litre which is I believe about 17 gal. It's been running for just over a week now. I would've had it running for longer but my partner is a big kid and has no patience and one week is the best compromise I could get out of him.
The water looks a tiny bit clearer now and fish are much happier - would it help if I did a couple more water changes throughout the day? I know it won't stop the bacterial gloom but would it be beneficial?
I can't leave the house today as my son is sick but it looks like I'll need to get a testing kit tomorrow. I too don't like the idea of trusting the "local fish guy" as I believe he might have just wanted to make a quick sale!

 

[Zuzkots]

I ordered the API fw master test kit, it should hopefully come tomorrow.

 

[phishfriend]

Awesome about the api kit! it will help you a lot. also, read this

Guide to Starting a Freshwater Aquarium - Aquarium Advice

It's got a ton of info for you. Plus, it will explain the cycle process.

With fish in the tank. water changes are going to be needed almost ever other day until the cycle has run its course. I know it sounds like a lot but until the good bacteria builds up in the tank to process the bio-load of the fish. your water changes are the only way to remove the ammonia produced for the fish.

 

[Zuzkots]

Awesome, thank you for your help, it's much appreciated!
One more question, when I'm doing water changes, is it ok to use the gravel vac thingy (I've got one of them) or will that remove the beneficial bacteria from the gravel? I don't mind doing frequent water changes at all, whatever it takes to cycle the tank and make my fish happy

 

[Zuzkots]

Nevernind, the link you sent me answered my question! Thank you!

 

[phishfriend]

No problem, Glad it helps! if you have more questions or need help just ask!

 

[Zuzkots]

Awesome about the api kit! it will help you a lot. also, read this

Guide to Starting a Freshwater Aquarium - Aquarium Advice

It's got a ton of info for you. Plus, it will explain the cycle process.

With fish in the tank. water changes are going to be needed almost ever other day until the cycle has run its course. I know it sounds like a lot but until the good bacteria builds up in the tank to process the bio-load of the fish. your water changes are the only way to remove the ammonia produced for the fish.

So I got the kit today and the levels are:
pH 7.2
High range pH 7.4
Ammonia 0.25ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 0ppm

The fish have been in for 4 days now together with 7 live plants. Before that the tank was set up and running for a week only.
I've been doing a 30% water change every day, using Tapsafe to dechlorinate, and Bioactive Filter Start every 2 days (two doses so far). So, does that mean water changes are helping? Or have the levels not spiked yet? Do I want ammonia to go up now, or down to 0? I'm sorry if I sound a bit simple...
Also, is pH 7.2 safe for mollies, platies and betta?

 

[Zuzkots]

Oh and I haven't done a water change yet today.

 

[Coz]

My 2 cents and I'm a newby so be advised but I have done a lot of research on tank cycling. With no nitrates, your tank definitely hasn't cycled. You need ammonia to feed the bacteria but since you have fish, you can't have very much and your plants are consuming some ammonia too.

Sounds to me like you're doing the best you can. Lots of pwc. Which is the downside of fish-in cycling. I would let ammonia rise to the highest "safe" level before your pwc. This will help feed bacteria. Someone smarter than me is gonna have to tell you what that ammonia level is.

 

[Scottyhorse]

I will give you my opinion

You should your water changes are good. But if the ammonia gets any higher you need to bump it up to 50% everyday.

During the cycling process, the ammonia will spike, then go down and you will see a nitrite spike. Then the nitrites will go down and nitrates will go up. At this point you need to do a huge water change to get the nitrates under 20 ppm. And you are cycled!

With the fish that you chose you are fully, 100% stocked. Mollies, platies and all live bearers create tons of waste considering their small size.

Just test once a day and make sure you don't overfeed. Infact, fasting one day a week is good for the fish, and will help the system cycle. If you have any more questions just feel free to ask!

 

[Zuzkots]

My 2 cents and I'm a newby so be advised but I have done a lot of research on tank cycling. With no nitrates, your tank definitely hasn't cycled. You need ammonia to feed the bacteria but since you have fish, you can't have very much and your plants are consuming some ammonia too.

Sounds to me like you're doing the best you can. Lots of pwc. Which is the downside of fish-in cycling. I would let ammonia rise to the highest "safe" level before your pwc. This will help feed bacteria. Someone smarter than me is gonna have to tell you what that ammonia level is.

Thank you! I've looked it up and it seems that the highest "safe" level for fish is 0.50ppm. And if one chooses to speed up the cycle by keeping that level, it is essential to do pwc every day,test twice daily and provide lots of aeration to make the fish as comfortable as possible. Is that correct?
I don't mind doing daily pwc, that's what I've been doing the past week. But I think I'd rather just try to stay at 0.25ppm knowing it's better for the fish, even if it prolongs the cycle. Right? Someone please correct me if I'm talking rubbish

 

[Zuzkots]

I will give you my opinion

You should your water changes are good. But if the ammonia gets any higher you need to bump it up to 50% everyday.

During the cycling process, the ammonia will spike, then go down and you will see a nitrite spike. Then the nitrites will go down and nitrates will go up. At this point you need to do a huge water change to get the nitrates under 20 ppm. And you are cycled!

With the fish that you chose you are fully, 100% stocked. Mollies, platies and all live bearers create tons of waste considering their small size.

Just test once a day and make sure you don't overfeed. Infact, fasting one day a week is good for the fish, and will help the system cycle. If you have any more questions just feel free to ask!

Thanks, that was very helpful!

I tested again tonight (still haven't done pwc) and the ammonia is sitting just slightly below 0.25ppm - so I don't have to do pwc right?
Am I right in saying that I want to keep it at 0.25ppm?

I got a Marina air pump with an air stone and the fish seem to enjoy the bubbles. The cloudiness is also clearing up, I can see everything in the tank clearly now. And yes I have just recently noticed how much waste the platies and mollies produce lol.

One more question - sorry - roughly how long should the cycle take? 4-6 weeks? More? I've been using the Bioactive Filter Start drops. Just so I know when to plan the celebration party for

 

[Zuzkots]

Thank you! I've looked it up and it seems that the highest "safe" level for fish is 0.50ppm. And if one chooses to speed up the cycle by keeping that level, it is essential to do pwc every day,test twice daily and provide lots of aeration to make the fish as comfortable as possible. Is that correct?
I don't mind doing daily pwc, that's what I've been doing the past week. But I think I'd rather just try to stay at 0.25ppm knowing it's better for the fish, even if it prolongs the cycle. Right? Someone please correct me if I'm talking rubbish

Or is it better at 0.50ppm?

 

[Zuzkots]

With the fish that you chose you are fully, 100% stocked. Mollies, platies and all live bearers create tons of waste considering their small size.

I'm not planning on getting any more fish but I wanted to get a snail. Should I wait til the cycle is finished? There's no food for him to eat now anyways, right?

 

[Ian086]

I'm not planning on getting any more fish but I wanted to get a snail. Should I wait til the cycle is finished? There's no food for him to eat now anyways, right?

Hey Zuzkots, welcome to the wonderful world of fish keeping. You seem to be on the right track now and there's nothing more i can add. You have been given some great advice by people who know what they're talking about. We all started out at some point and all made mistakes, which we learn from. It sounds like your starting to answer your own questions!!!. I just wanted to give you a few tips, they are from mistakes i made myself at the start.
1. ASK, ASK, ASK. Never be afraid to ask a question, it's the best way to learn. The advice i got, and of course, still get on here, is priceless. Even if you think it might be a 'silly' question, ask it. There are tons of very experienced people on here who are very friendly and are more than happy to help out newcomers..
2. Don't beat yourself up over mistakes. We all make/made them. It's all part of the learning process. You were only following the advice of someone you trusted and should have advised you better. You have already learned from that, and as was mentioned in the thread, don't trust all lfs. I'm not saying all lfs are the same, far from it. I have a great relationship with my small lfs. I also have a 'large' store in my town, i don't go near that, for the same reasons that you had. Silly, uneducated advice. He once told me i could put Red Belly Piranhas in my Community tank, seriously, i'm NOT joking!!!.
3. You seem very eager to learn, which is great, we are all like that. There's no such thing as an expert, just people with plenty of experience. Tap into it, it's free!!...
4. Research, Research, Research. The world is at your finger-tips, use it!!!!

Keep the questions coming, you'll have no shortage of great advice. Finally, Best Of Luck with it and enjoy your new obsession...Ian

 

[Ian086]

Hey Zuzkots, welcome to the wonderful world of fish keeping. You seem to be on the right track now and there's nothing more i can add. You have been given some great advice by people who know what they're talking about. We all started out at some point and all made mistakes, which we learn from. It sounds like your starting to answer your own questions!!!. I just wanted to give you a few tips, they are from mistakes i made myself at the start.
1. ASK, ASK, ASK. Never be afraid to ask a question, it's the best way to learn. The advice i got, and of course, still get on here, is priceless. Even if you think it might be a 'silly' question, ask it. There are tons of very experienced people on here who are very friendly and are more than happy to help out newcomers..
2. Don't beat yourself up over mistakes. We all make/made them. It's all part of the learning process. You were only following the advice of someone you trusted and should have advised you better. You have already learned from that, and as was mentioned in the thread, don't trust all lfs. I'm not saying all lfs are the same, far from it. I have a great relationship with my small lfs. I also have a 'large' store in my town, i don't go near that, for the same reasons that you had. Silly, uneducated advice. He once told me i could put Red Belly Piranhas in my Community tank, seriously, i'm NOT joking!!!.
3. You seem very eager to learn, which is great, we are all/should be like that. There's no such thing as an expert, just people with plenty of experience. Tap into it, it's free...
4. Research, Research, Research. The word is at your finger-tips, use it!!!!

Keep the questions coming, you'll have no shortage of advice. Finally, Best Of Luck with it and enjoy your new obsession...Ian

 

[Zuzkots]

Hey Zuzkots, welcome to the wonderful world of fish keeping. You seem to be on the right track now and there's nothing more i can add. You have been given some great advice by people who know what they're talking about. We all started out at some point and all made mistakes, which we learn from. It sounds like your starting to answer your own questions!!!. I just wanted to give you a few tips, they are from mistakes i made myself at the start.
1. ASK, ASK, ASK. Never be afraid to ask a question, it's the best way to learn. The advice i got, and of course, still get on here, is priceless. Even if you think it might be a 'silly' question, ask it. There are tons of very experienced people on here who are very friendly and are more than happy to help out newcomers..
2. Don't beat yourself up over mistakes. We all make/made them. It's all part of the learning process. You were only following the advice of someone you trusted and should have advised you better. You have already learned from that, and as was mentioned in the thread, don't trust all lfs. I'm not saying all lfs are the same, far from it. I have a great relationship with my small lfs. I also have a 'large' store in my town, i don't go near that, for the same reasons that you had. Silly, uneducated advice. He once told me i could put Red Belly Piranhas in my Community tank, seriously, i'm NOT joking!!!.
3. You seem very eager to learn, which is great, we are all/should be like that. There's no such thing as an expert, just people with plenty of experience. Tap into it, it's free...
4. Research, Research, Research. The word is at your finger-tips, use it!!!!

Keep the questions coming, you'll have no shortage of advice. Finally, Best Of Luck with it and enjoy your new obsession...Ian

Thank you so much for your kind words and advice!
I admit I was a little afraid of joining a forum as I thought I'd be eaten alive with my first post! Lol. But I have already received great help from everyone which made my start so much easier. I really enjoy fish keeping so far and everything that comes with it, pwcs, water testing and all Can't wait to learn more!

Thanks again!

PS: Seriously about the piranhas? Ouch! Even I would know that's not right!