I May Soon Lose Another One...Can Anyone Tell Me Why This Keeps Happening?

[jlk]

Sooo.... I read somewhere, think it was on this forum but not sure, that Goldfish, specifically Ryukins, don t really have stomachs so need to be fed several times a day. ??

Goldfish do not have 'true' stomachs in the sense that they are able to store food for any length of time. Their stomachs are merely extensions of their intestines that aid in digestion. They are by design grazers that are on the constant hunt for something to eat making them best suited to small, frequent meals. Large, singular meals are not digested well and can lead to impaction, constipation, excess gas, buoyancy issues and even possibly internal infections as the result. In natural settings, goldfish diets are 80+% vegetative matter and the closer we can approximate this, the healthier they will be.

Berylla, in respect to maintenance, most serious keepers and breeders keep goldfish in the same fashion as discus owners and breeders. Water changes are very large (75-100%) and constant, tanks/tubs are kept immaculate and fish are well fed. Serious breeders do not even bother with 'cycling' as 100% of the water is changed daily or more often. While this may not be practical for most hobbiests, the bigger and more frequent the wcs along with an appropriate diet that includes daily veggie matter, the healthier and happier fish will be.

 

[Berylla]

Thanks, jlk. I'm surprised that goldfish are just as sensitive to bad water as discus, but it makes sense given the amount they eat.

 

[jlk]

Thanks, jlk. I'm surprised that goldfish are just as sensitive to bad water as discus, but it makes sense given the amount they eat.

Its not all goldfish but more specifically our manmade fancies. Commons and other singletail breeds are actually pretty tolerant of a wide variety of water conditions as are their wild carp predecessors.

 

[Rodeo one]

Very, very well said JLK. It s people like you that make this forum so great .

 

[jwh0818]

Its not all goldfish but more specifically our manmade fancies. Commons and other singletail breeds are actually pretty tolerant of a wide variety of water conditions as are their wild carp predecessors.

Yes I agree. Very well said. I know a commet goldfish breeder who keeps his comet tanks no lower than 80 and no higher than 81.5 he breed great healthy feeders basically and he will occasionally get a more unique looking commet and keep them so they arent feeders.

 

[jlk]

Yes I agree. Very well said. I know a commet goldfish breeder who keeps his comet tanks no lower than 80 and no higher than 81.5 he breed great healthy feeders basically and he will occasionally get a more unique looking commet and keep them so they arent feeders.

Getting a bit off topic here but heres a quick story. I have a bunch of baby pools full of water lettuce that I sell in the summer. The weather is getting cooler and its starting to die so I have started working on cleaning them. Well, these pools have zero filtration/aeration, have never had a wc (or anything else for that matter), are full of black, pea-soup thick stagnant water and I found quite a few of sarassa comet fry in one them in addition to about thousand tadpoles yesterday. I am even surprised they survived!

 

[jwh0818]

Getting a bit off topic here but heres a quick story. I have a bunch of baby pools full of water lettuce that I sell in the summer. The weather is getting cooler and its starting to die so I have started working on cleaning them. Well, these pools have zero filtration/aeration, have never had a wc (or anything else for that matter), are full of black, pea-soup thick stagnant water and I found quite a few of sarassa comet fry in one them in addition to about thousand tadpoles yesterday. I am even surprised they survived!

Comets are very very very hardy and take temp change very well. Doenst mean ypu should keep em in a 10g tank or have em in 90 degree water or anything (to those of you reading this) but yes very hardy

 

[Berylla]

Its not all goldfish but more specifically our manmade fancies. Commons and other singletail breeds are actually pretty tolerant of a wide variety of water conditions as are their wild carp predecessors.

Ahhh. I get it. I see so many if the common ones in really filthy tanks and they seem healthy. My niece keeps a common goldfish in a 2.5 gallon. I still don't understand how a 6" fish could survive in such a small tank.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

So what is the suggested feeding schedule for fancies then? I have been giving two small to medium-sized meals a day, either flakes or New Life Spectrum pellets...should it drop to once a day?

 

[jwh0818]

So what is the suggested feeding schedule for fancies then? I have been giving two small to medium-sized meals a day, either flakes or New Life Spectrum pellets...should it drop to once a day?

When I kept comets, I fed them around 3 times a day and the pinch was super tiny. I dipped it under water in the filter outflow so the could scavenge for it

 

[Fishfur]

Earlier in this post you mentioned a concern about exhausted carbon in the filter. Why use carbon at all ? It is really only needed to remove colour, odour or medication from water. And since you are using Purigen, it's even less necessary. There is some information I've read that suggests long term use of carbon can actually harm fish. Though it is used by many, and was once considered essential, this is changing.

You may do better by using more biomedia in place of the charcoal in the filter. Charcoal does not support the beneficial bacteria as well as some other media does, so it should help with filtration.

And frequent, small meals should help too. You might consider getting some floating Azolla, many goldfish relish eating this plant and if you have enough light over the tank it grows quite well. Mine is quite red, looks very pretty, really. Some Koi keepers grow Azolla just to feed their Koi. Azolla caroliniana is the species name, or one of them anyway.

When I clean my Aqua Clears, I squeeze and squash the sponge quite thoroughly in tank water. I do the same to the floss. The ceramic stuff I swish and roll around in my hands to clean it. I also cover the back, side and top of the filter with foil, as the tank is in a window and gets too much sun,which tends to grow algae in it. The foil stops the algae, and also seems to reduce the growth on the walls of the box in general. I only clean the filter box itself every few months. I do wipe down the media basket when I clean the media.

 

[Berylla]

Earlier in this post you mentioned a concern about exhausted carbon in the filter. Why use carbon at all ? It is really only needed to remove colour, odour or medication from water. And since you are using Purigen, it's even less necessary. There is some information I've read that suggests long term use of carbon can actually harm fish. Though it is used by many, and was once considered essential, this is changing.

You may do better by using more biomedia in place of the charcoal in the filter. Charcoal does not support the beneficial bacteria as well as some other media does, so it should help with filtration.

And frequent, small meals should help too. You might consider getting some floating Azolla, many goldfish relish eating this plant and if you have enough light over the tank it grows quite well. Mine is quite red, looks very pretty, really. Some Koi keepers grow Azolla just to feed their Koi. Azolla caroliniana is the species name, or one of them anyway.

When I clean my Aqua Clears, I squeeze and squash the sponge quite thoroughly in tank water. I do the same to the floss. The ceramic stuff I swish and roll around in my hands to clean it. I also cover the back, side and top of the filter with foil, as the tank is in a window and gets too much sun,which tends to grow algae in it. The foil stops the algae, and also seems to reduce the growth on the walls of the box in general. I only clean the filter box itself every few months. I do wipe down the media basket when I clean the media.

The author of this post had sudden deaths due to, what we guess, is some toxin in the water. Carbon is good in this instance because it absorbs chemicals, including medications, chlorine, chloramine, and heavy metals.

Running new carbon in this case is recommended until the water can be tested from his local water supplier. This test is provided for free by the city. I don't run carbon in my tanks either, but my tapwater is filtered through a two stage filtration system that includes carbon.

 

[Fishfur]

That it does, and I'm sorry if I missed some part of the thread. I got the impression it was more of a feeding issue.

I rarely use carbon myself, so far there has been no need. I guess my point was more that as a regular thing it's not necessary, and might not be as harmless as we have always assumed it is where fish are concerned.

When I first started keeping fish, you used carbon & glass fibre and tossed it all out every time you cleaned the filter. Times have certainly changed since those days.
Certainly if you need to get toxins or meds out of water, activated charcoal is the stuff you want.

 

[Berylla]

That it does, and I'm sorry if I missed some part of the thread. I got the impression it was more of a feeding issue.

I rarely use carbon myself, so far there has been no need. I guess my point was more that as a regular thing it's not necessary, and might not be as harmless as we have always assumed it is where fish are concerned.

When I first started keeping fish, you used carbon & glass fibre and tossed it all out every time you cleaned the filter. Times have certainly changed since those days.
Certainly if you need to get toxins or meds out of water, activated charcoal is the stuff you want.

Fishfur, I owe you an apology. Carbon was not mentioned earlier in this post, it was in another thread that I'm currently participating in. DOH!

 

[Fishfur]

It can get confusing at times, so many posts ! Love the diy water changer. I added a click on fitting to mine that attaches to the fitting for the portable dishwasher, saves screwing them on and off the tap at least.

 

[Berylla]

It can get confusing at times, so many posts ! Love the diy water changer. I added a click on fitting to mine that attaches to the fitting for the portable dishwasher, saves screwing them on and off the tap at least.

That's a good idea! Mine is a Y shape garden connector so I can run water without taking off the connector. It's also good to set the water temps before filling.

 

[Fishfur]

I wish I could rely on the temperature to stay constant. But this building is old, the pressure is poor and anyone who uses a tap in my stack changes the temp and pressure right away. Very annoying to say the least and I can't suck water out unless I leave both hot and cold wide open on the Aqueon version of python.

That pump system you have would save a lot of water, though I don't pay separate utilities, I hate to waste water or power.

 

[Berylla]

Fishfur, let's start a new thread about water change systems, ok?

 

[Fishfur]

good idea..

 

[Berylla]

Fishfur, you start it. For some reason, this site won't let me start a thread

I asked for some help, but it could take a while.