Less light is better?

[Lady_Alia]

How long has this tank been up and running? With no fertilizers how often do you do water changes and how much water do you change? Seems you would deplete a lot of trace nutrients.

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I've had plants in this tank since late September. I converted to a dirt substrate the beginning I November.

I've done a few water changes, I can't say how much. I drain and fill at the same time. In a planted tank you're not really suppose to do water changes lol. Once it gets completely settled I may do a water change once a month, if that.

My goal is to have an ecosystem. I want the plants to clean my water and the fish to fert my plants. I got Diana Walstads book for Christmas after seeing her speak. It's an amazing book and I recommend everyone to read it. Especially if you're not wanting a high tech tank.

 

[Rivercats]

In my very high light 220g tank I run 4- 39w T5HO's for 8 hours straight BUT remember that is very low light in a tank of that size and depth (30"). Then I run my Led's 6 hours and the metal halides 4 hours. This is all during the 8 hour time frame. Moon lights come on after that. I used to run the T5HO's 10 hours but once I added the Led's to increase lighting I had to lower the photoperiod on the T5HO's.

On my 55g I run my T5HO's for only 6 hours but after that I have a BML fixture that I can run at 10% light that I run for 4 hours after the higher light turns off.

I've run siesta periods and plants do very well. The reason they do well is because plants can photosynthesize at a much faster rate than algae. Many algae need a long constant light period to photosynthesize so by doing 2 shorter light periods many types of algae can't grow.

Also if you can find a very low light (led's IMO work great for this) you can run them 2-4 hours after other lights go off.

Since each tank is different and depending on plants used you can usually experiment with higher and then a very low light source to come up with an extended viewing time without it causing algae issues.

 

[Lady_Alia]

What are BML lights?

 

[Lady_Alia]

I'm running two T8 32W 8,000K bulbs on my 55g.

 

[Rivercats]

What are BML lights?

Build My Led fixture specifically made for planted tanks.

 

[ashleynicole]

Ladyalia your tank is beautiful. I like that idea with the split photoperiod but I dont think its dark enough in my house to work. Ambient light from the rooms and Windows, even with the blinds closed its still not very dark.

Id also be interested in the long term nutrient balance ... it may be ok without fertilizer for 2-3 months but what about years? I guess you would have to do a lot of water changes to replace depleted nutrients if your not dosing with anything?



I really like the idea of a photo period from 8-12 and then from 4-10. That would be perfect so the kids could see their fish just before school and after school and then we could enjoy them in the evening as well.
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[Rivercats]

The type of plants and lighting all determine how much ferts are needed. Higher light means faster growth and photosynthesis which means plants need more ferts/nutrients. Lower light means slower growth so less if any ferts (depending on the type of plants used) are needed but are always helpful. Fast growing plants also need and use more nutrients.

Tap water doesn't supply all the macro and micro nutrients plants need and over time certain nutrient deficiencies will usually develop. Often potassium and iron issues are the first to show themselves as time progresses.

The Walstad method is very specific about using a dirted tank, certain lighting and stocking, and using certain plants using the theory that the nutrients released from the soil and waste from fish and uneaten food all provide plants with the nutrients they need. For most tanks unless her method is strictly followed doesn't work.

The same with WC's... water changes are needed in planted tanks. The Walstad method is about setting up the tank in a way that requires little in WC's.

 

[gilpi]

I'm running two T8 32W 8,000K bulbs on my 55g.

Where did you get 8000k bulbs and aren't they very blue/red in color?

 

[gilpi]

The type of plants and lighting all determine how much ferts are needed. Higher light means faster growth and photosynthesis which means plants need more ferts/nutrients. Lower light means slower growth so less if any ferts (depending on the type of plants used) are needed but are always helpful. Fast growing plants also need and use more nutrients.

Tap water doesn't supply all the macro and micro nutrients plants need and over time certain nutrient deficiencies will usually develop. Often potassium and iron issues are the first to show themselves as time progresses.

The Walstad method is very specific about using a dirted tank, certain lighting and stocking, and using certain plants using the theory that the nutrients released from the soil and waste from fish and uneaten food all provide plants with the nutrients they need. For most tanks unless her method is strictly followed doesn't work.

The same with WC's... water changes are needed in planted tanks. The Walstad method is about setting up the tank in a way that requires little in WC's.

From most of the stuff I've read this seems to be what I get and correct me if I'm wrong...

2700K simulates late morning
5000K high noon
6500K mid afternoon

So where do the other lights like a 8000K and 10000k fall under and how can they benefit plants as good as say a 5000K? In my case once I removed the 6500K and left only one strip of 5000K plants are finally starting to bloom and I have to keep removing the thick algae die off that has occurred. I'm thinking of adding another 5000K and running them say 6-7 hours? Maybe even lighting the tank into two periods of 3-4 hours per day?

 

[Lady_Alia]

Where did you get 8000k bulbs and aren't they very blue/red in color?

You're the second person to ask me if they're blue, they're not. They're very bright but they have no blue to them. I bought the fixture from an individual and they were already in it. They're sylvania, and they're on the sylvania website. I don't know what store I'd get them from lol.

 

[gilpi]

You're the second person to ask me if they're blue, they're not. They're very bright but they have no blue to them. I bought the fixture from an individual and they were already in it. They're sylvania, and they're on the sylvania website. I don't know what store I'd get them from lol.

Ok thanks, I appreciate the info. I'm not new at fishkeeping but fairly new to plants in tanks and while it's good to experiment on your own I also like to listen and gather information from people that have been there.

 

[Lady_Alia]

Ohhhh I'm new to it too. Though I had a few plants in the September/October time frame I didn't switch to dirt till November. I got this light in late november. I JUST figured out the bulbs and bla bla bla lol.

 

[ashleynicole]

I've had plants in this tank since late September. I converted to a dirt substrate the beginning I November.

I've done a few water changes, I can't say how much. I drain and fill at the same time. In a planted tank you're not really suppose to do water changes lol. Once it gets completely settled I may do a water change once a month, if that.

If your dosing the appropriate nutrients then yes you can minimize your water changes but I would imagine the soil even in a dirted tank is going to eventually be depleted of certain nutrients because fish cant provide everything the plants need on their own. Its more than just nitrogen, phosphorus, potassum, and iron. I think after a year or so you may start to encounter some issues.

Sometimes I do water changes every week sometimes only once a month but I dose comprehensive and macros every week and trace a couple times a week and excel dialy along with root tabs. So even when I dont change water I am replenishing nutrients. My nitrates are never more than 10 so I dont change water for nitrates, I change it because my plants always seem to have a growth spurt after large water changes and the fish usually spawn after one as well.


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[gilpi]

If your dosing the appropriate nutrients then yes you can minimize your water changes but I would imagine the soil even in a dirted tank is going to eventually be depleted of certain nutrients because fish cant provide everything the plants need on their own. Its more than just nitrogen, phosphorus, potassum, and iron. I think after a year or so you may start to encounter some issues.

Sometimes I do water changes every week sometimes only once a month but I dose comprehensive and macros every week and trace a couple times a week and excel dialy along with root tabs. So even when I dont change water I am replenishing nutrients. My nitrates are never more than 10 so I dont change water for nitrates, I change it because my plants always seem to have a growth spurt after large water changes and the fish usually spawn after one as well.


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I think it's tough to substitute a water change in a closed environment no matter what. Sometimes you can actually see the change in the fish and plants as you mentioned, especially after not doing a WC for a few weeks.
Which takes me to another related topic... I use only filter media for biological filtration, no carbon. I'm wondering if the use of carbon in a planted tank removes essential nutrients that plants need?

 

[ashleynicole]

I think it's tough to substitute a water change in a closed environment no matter what. Sometimes you can actually see the change in the fish and plants as you mentioned, especially after not doing a WC for a few weeks.
Which takes me to another related topic... I use only filter media for biological filtration, no carbon. I'm wondering if the use of carbon in a planted tank removes essential nutrients that plants need?

I dont use carbon either. Ive tossed around the idea of trying some purigen but ultimately decided against it because even if the plants might be ok I still feel like something beneficial might be absorbed. If I ever do a non planted tank I think I would definitely use purigen though.

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[aqua_chem]

From most of the stuff I've read this seems to be what I get and correct me if I'm wrong...

2700K simulates late morning
5000K high noon
6500K mid afternoon

So where do the other lights like a 8000K and 10000k fall under and how can they benefit plants as good as say a 5000K? In my case once I removed the 6500K and left only one strip of 5000K plants are finally starting to bloom and I have to keep removing the thick algae die off that has occurred. I'm thinking of adding another 5000K and running them say 6-7 hours? Maybe even lighting the tank into two periods of 3-4 hours per day?

The temperature rating of a bulb is a gestalt of the bulb's actual spectrum. A fluorescent bulb with a 6000K rating might look similar to midday light, but the actual makeup of the light, the spectrum, is extremely different as the sun acts more like a black body radiator, and a fluorescent bulbs is, well, fluorescent. Plants care less about the overall appearance of a light and more about the individual components of the spectrum. That's why 8000K or 10000K bulbs work just fine for plants even though they have no natural counterpart; their spectrum contains the wavelengths that plants need for photosynthesis, but are often lacking other colors that 'natural' light has in more abundance, eg green/yellow.

 

[gilpi]

The temperature rating of a bulb is a gestalt of the bulb's actual spectrum. A fluorescent bulb with a 6000K rating might look similar to midday light, but the actual makeup of the light, the spectrum, is extremely different as the sun acts more like a black body radiator, and a fluorescent bulbs is, well, fluorescent. Plants care less about the overall appearance of a light and more about the individual components of the spectrum. That's why 8000K or 10000K bulbs work just fine for plants even though they have no natural counterpart; their spectrum contains the wavelengths that plants need for photosynthesis, but are often lacking other colors that 'natural' light has in more abundance, eg green/yellow.

Great advice, what I've been looking for. That being said, does algae reacts to the same spectrum as plants?

 

[ashleynicole]

Well im on day 3 of a split photo period and we are loving it. Get to see the fish in the morning and evening when the house is most active. We will see how plants and algae respond.

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[Lady_Alia]

The temperature rating of a bulb is a gestalt of the bulb's actual spectrum. A fluorescent bulb with a 6000K rating might look similar to midday light, but the actual makeup of the light, the spectrum, is extremely different as the sun acts more like a black body radiator, and a fluorescent bulbs is, well, fluorescent. Plants care less about the overall appearance of a light and more about the individual components of the spectrum. That's why 8000K or 10000K bulbs work just fine for plants even though they have no natural counterpart; their spectrum contains the wavelengths that plants need for photosynthesis, but are often lacking other colors that 'natural' light has in more abundance, eg green/yellow.

OMGoodness! That's an awesome explanation, thank you. To be honest, I don't know why my lights work, they just do, so I'm happy with them lol. But because I don't know why they work I can't explain it to someone who might be asking questions. So again, thank you!!!!!

 

[Lady_Alia]

Well im on day 3 of a split photo period and we are loving it. Get to see the fish in the morning and evening when the house is most active. We will see how plants and algae respond.

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I really like it too. My plants SEEM to grow better but it could be my imagination lol.