40+ deaths in less then two weeks, please help

[leoslizards]

My guppies have been dropping like crazy in the past two weeks. I usually only lose about 1-3 a month from other diseases but in the past two weeks I have lost about 1-4 fish every day. Today I pulled out about five dead guppies and ten sick ones that I transfered to another tank. The majority of sick fish are gravid females that cannot swim correctly and wobble around the tank, some even swim vertically with their heads facing the gravel. Others just lay at the bottom, sometimes upside down and breath rapidly. Very few males show the same symptoms and the others look like they are starving to death. They have shrunken abdomens and lay at the bottom as well. Some look pale and some look fine. I don't see any changes in behavior in the loaches or the ABNP.

My ph is usually around 6.8 through 7.0 and was around 7.4 in Aug./Sept. and I have noticed it falling slowly. I treated the tank with a Jungle Labs product (forgot the name, a fizzing tab that turns the water green) twice around Nov./Dec. because my fish were showing signs of body fungus, clamped fins, dropsy, septicemia, and also suddenly jerked and darted around the tank and scrapped their bodies on plants and rocks. After I treated the tank, there was less signs of illness and about only four deaths since then, one being my male betta which showed heavy signs of dropsy and septicemia. I have not treated that tank with anything else since then.

Here are some of my water parameters.

Date: 12/19/07
PH: 6.8
NH3: 0.0
NO2: 0.1
GH: 140
KH: 20
Temp: N/A

Date: 01/08/08 (Before PWC)
PH: 6.4
NH3: 0.6
NO2: 0.1
GH: 160
KH: 30
Temp: N/A

Date: 01/08/08 (After PWC)
PH: 7.0
NH3: 0.0
NO2: 0.2
GH: 120
KH: 30
Temp: N/A

Date: 01/22/08
PH: 7.0
NH3: 0.6
NO2: 0.2
GH: 160
KH: 40
Temp: N/A

Date: 02/28/08 (Before PWC)
PH: 6.0
NH3: 0.6
NO2: 0.3
GH: 100
KH: 20
Temp: N/A

I have a 30g planted aquarium that's over two years old with a hob filter and a 150w heater. About 1" of Eco-Complete Planted Aquarium Substrate and 2" of leveling sand (wet sand) from Home Depot. The inhabitants consist of 100+ guppies, 8 (3-4") clown loaches, a 4" ABNP, about 10 ghost shrimp and about 100+ mystery snails. Yes I know I'm overstocked.

They only changes that I can think of that might be causing this is that I added two mystery snails about two months ago which reproduced so now I have about 100 pea sized mystery snails. Maybe their shells are absorbing the calcium and nutrients from the water which might be lowering the ph and causing a mini-cycle. My test kit only goes to 6.0 but I have a feeling it might be even lower because the tint of the liquid looked lighter then the color on the color chart. I also noticed an increase in Co2. I don't inject or use DIY co2 by the way, or any type of co2 additive or ferts. I looked at a chart online to determine the amount of co2 gases in the system and according to the chart with a ph of 6.0 there seems to be a slightly high level of co2 which is usual for my system which is usually low. I recently added a drop checker and it's green which means it's ok though. When I noticed the gravid females rapidly breathing at the bottom, my first thought was that the co2 levels were too high so I added a large airstone which I now have running 24/7. The drop checker is currently blue. Btw, my plants have never looked better. Another change to the system was that I added a new light fixture. It went from 60 watts to a total of 100 watts. I set it on top of a piece of plexi-glass that covers 2/3 of the top which is also new. It might be that the new lights are raising the temp of the water. Someone told me that guppies like cooler temps in the lower 80's. Another thing that may cause a problem is that about a month ago while I was cleaning the gravel and moving some plants, I noticed that the gravel kept releasing some bubbles. I believe these are called anaerobic bacterial bubbles? I heard this could cause illness when released into the water column. I was talking to someone about this and they told me to look for posts on how to keep from getting these pockets and how to maintain a sandy dense substrate. I also read long ago that MTS stir up the dirt/sand which help reduce these pockets of gases.

I did a pwc on 02/28/08 to help reduce the low levels of ammonia and nitrites but have yet to re-test the water since then. I'll get those results posted here later on today as well as some temp readings.

I would greatly appreciate any help or advice on how to fix this problem. Btw, I have an empty uncycled 10g tank with a hob filter but no heater. I might be able to get another one with hob also. I also have a bunch of different meds and a Seachem product that raises the ph to 7.0. I don't know the exact name but I will post that later. I hope this all is enough info about my system to help determine the issue.


Thanks.
Leo

 

[mom2reds]

I would double check the water temp with a different themometer than you are useing at the moment and make sure your heater is not working over time and I would also do a 50% water change or more.

Good Luck and please post your water parameters then the experts on here ( no me) might be albe to help you more

 

[Zagz]

Test your water for ph out of the tap, also test for ammonia and nitrate out of the tap. Take a temp reading with another thermometer as suggested.

Shrunken stomachs could indicate an internal parasite. How are the fish eating? Try getting a medicated food for internal parasites or geltek medication to soak their regular food in.

What meds did you use to treat the tank with when you did treat it? Some medications destroy beneficial bacteria.

What kind of tests are you using? Liquid or strips? Are you adding dechlorinator with each water change? Most of the illnesses you are describing can be a result of water parameters.

 

[leoslizards]

Test your water for ph out of the tap, also test for ammonia and nitrate out of the tap. Take a temp reading with another thermometer as suggested.

Shrunken stomachs could indicate an internal parasite. How are the fish eating? Try getting a medicated food for internal parasites or geltek medication to soak their regular food in.

What meds did you use to treat the tank with when you did treat it? Some medications destroy beneficial bacteria.

What kind of tests are you using? Liquid or strips? Are you adding dechlorinator with each water change? Most of the illnesses you are describing can be a result of water parameters.

Tap Parameters:
PH: 7.6
NH3: 0
No2: 0.1
KH: 30
GH: 60

There's a LFS near me were the owner also owns a fish food company and he makes medicated foods as well. I just gotta give him a call and custom order it. I buy all my food from him. I could get like a 1lb for less than $20 and they out perform the top retail foods. Here check this out, he has three different medicated foods.

Last time I used Jungle Labs Fungus Plus fizz tabs. I checked my cabinet today and found some, Fungus plus tabs, Maracyn 2, Triple Sulfa, Pimafix, and Melafix. I think I'm going to use the Maracyn 2 this time with a bit of salt and some medicated food. I was checking out this diagnostic chart and it says "Condition: Guppy Problems, Description: Off-color patches, hovering on top, swimming peculiar., Suggested Products: Trimethiazole (TMT)" Should I try this? Btw, this is where I get my food and guppies from. The guppies I got from him are still healthy btw. Looks like my guppies have Fin and Tail Rot, Clamp Fins, Gill Disease, Guppy Disease, Swim Bladder Disease, and pop eye. TMT treats all except Gill Disease, all the other meds I have treat it though.

I'm using a Hagen Nutrafin Mini Master Test Kit (Liquid). My usual dechlorinator ran out today so I started using Prime. I add it to every 5g bucket before every pwc.

 

[Zagz]

Prime is an excellent dechlorinator. Make sure to remove any carbon from the filter. I'd avoid the salt if you have loaches in the tank. They are salt intolerant. A broad spectrum antibiotic like TMT may be helpful, hard to say. If possible treat the sickest ones in a separate tank to preserve your cycle.

 

[leoslizards]

I'm treating the guppies in two 10g tanks and transferring them to many 10g tanks once they are healthy. I'm making a fish rack. The snails are going into another 10g tank and the loaches are staying in the 30g until I get the 300g tank. They might not be treated. The guppies seem to be the only ones getting sick. I know the pleco and the loaches can't tolerate salt well, no scaleless fish can. Thanks for the info though.

 

[mom2reds]

Sounds like your are on the right track hope evrything works out for you.

 

[Zagz]

Good luck and keep us updated on how the fish make out.

 

[leoslizards]

Well here's an update. I've been doing 25% daily water changes with barely any results. I was still detecting a bit of ammonia and nitrites. After several attempts at trying to figure out the cause I finally found it. Turned out to be a media bag I made out of gauze. I just recently found out that cotton rots. I removed the bag a couple of days ago and everything seems a bit better now. The guppies are still sick and the problem seems to be an internal parasite. I bought some De-Worming and Anti-Protozoan flake food today. I also got my water tested for PH and NO3 because my ph test kit bottomed out at 6.0 and I don't have a Nitrate test. Turns out my ph is actually closer to 5.0 and my nitrates at 0. The owner of the LFS gave me some crushed coral to help buffer the water and told me to mix it into my gravel. He also told me to add 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda to raise the ph. What do you guys think of that? Good or bad idea?

 

[Zagz]

Don't raise or mess with the ph. A stable ph is much better than trying to acheive perfect ph. Parasitic meds are fine. Don't bother with the crushed coral either. I don't see how your ph can be 5.0 myself. But your fish need stability to recover not fluctuating ph.

 

[leoslizards]

OK. I decided to go with your advice and not use the coral or play around with the ph. My ph is not stable, it's been slowly dropping. It was at 6.8 a few months ago. The owner at the LFS says it's at 5.0, my test kit bottoms out at 6.0. I'm just going to continue doing my daily pwc until it reaches the ph of my tap (7.4 - 7.6).

I already transfered the guppies to a bare bottom 10g tank with a hob filter without media or pads (mainly for water movement), a 50watt heater at 82ºF, and an air stone. I added Maracyn2, two tablespoons of salt and I'm feeding them at least two times a day with the De-Worming and Anti-Protozoan flakes. Gonna do 25% or 50% daily water changes. What do you suggest? 25 or 50? Should I add more salt? Someone told me to do one tablespoon per gallon of water but I followed the instructions on the package and only added one tablespoon per five gallons. Should I add some hiding places?

Today I'm disinfecting another 10g tank where I'll transfer all the snails to. As soon as I get rid of the 8" pleco, I will re-cycle that tank so I can transfer all the guppies to after the QT period and someone is giving me another 20g tank that I'm also going to cycle for the guppies. Does anyone here want an 8" common pleco? Local pickup in Miami, FL only. Kendal area. PM me.