A pole regarding Ammonia, Bio Filtration, PO4 and Plants.

[jarrod0987]

I have been reading a lot of articles lately about how high tech planted tank people are able to keep Phosphate levels at 2-3 ppm without algae. It has also become apparent this helps eliminate green spot algae to some people. I would Like to take a poll Please

I think planted tanks look so still that people may underestimate there flow and the importance of processing the Ammonia/Urea.

 

[Fresh2o]

For the mobile/app users, switch to Web View to see the survey.
Would an AC50 on a 20 long be considered low, medium, or high flow? I had a pair of them running at one time. Removed one because of the way the output disturbed the plants. I responded with 'low flow'.
PO4 was between 5-10 ppm (may have been higher). Cut my phosphate dosing in half. Have not tested but hoping it is between 3-5 ppm.
I get some GSA on the front and side walls. Have not used the algae scraper in a month or so. Some BBA forms on the substrate. Medium lighting and injected CO2. Lots of plants.



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[jarrod0987]

For the mobile/app users, switch to Web View to see the survey.
Would an AC50 on a 20 long be considered low, medium, or high flow? I had a pair of them running at one time. Removed one because of the way the output disturbed the plants. I responded with 'low flow'.
PO4 was between 5-10 ppm (may have been higher). Cut my phosphate dosing in half. Have not tested but hoping it is between 3-5 ppm.
I get some GSA on the front and side walls. Have not used the algae scraper in a month or so. Some BBA forms on the substrate. Medium lighting and injected CO2. Lots of plants.



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Flow is tricky when talking about power heads because GPH is not a very good way to tell. For my purposes I would say that qualifies as flow. One of the things I am looking for is do people with little to no water movement have more issues with algae then the rest . This would make it take longer for ammonia to diffuse and get processed then in a tank where the water is always stirred , even slowly.

 

[Fresh2o]

One note on BBA and flow rate...I would sometimes find it growing on along the back where flow was low. I also found it growing on the output of the HOB filter. The latter did not make sense.


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[Delapool]

I'm not sure what to vote here? I have P above 2ppm in medium flow and I have algae but I haven't really observed a change in phosphate causing a change in algae. It could do but I'm not testing that much to be able to tell and I don't have my tank stable enough just to move a single element.

 

[Fresh2o]

I'm not sure what to vote here? I have P above 2ppm in medium flow and I have algae but I haven't really observed a change in phosphate causing a change in algae. It could do but I'm not testing that much to be able to tell and I don't have my tank stable enough just to move a single element.

I selected the closest answer.
As for testing, I checked my log and found I've tested N and P a total of 4 times this year; 3 last month and once in the spring.


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[jarrod0987]

I'm not sure what to vote here? I have P above 2ppm in medium flow and I have algae but I haven't really observed a change in phosphate causing a change in algae. It could do but I'm not testing that much to be able to tell and I don't have my tank stable enough just to move a single element.

I would say flow yes, bio media no. A tiny, unnoticeable amount of algae isn't really what I'm looking for as much an algae is starting to establish or is established etc. I'm more interested in the flow and bio filter issue then the PO4 in this case anyways. I just threw PO4 in there because it has shown to have a correlation in many cases.

 

[jarrod0987]

One note on BBA and flow rate...I would sometimes find it growing on along the back where flow was low. I also found it growing on the output of the HOB filter. The latter did not make sense.


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I have heard someone speaking about algae saying it seemed to prefer rough and porous surfaces and smooth surfaces were resistant. I did not think to include that.

 

[Delapool]

Done voted IDK, I'm growing BBA everywhere. Any hard surface really (including wood). I really curse that when I saw the first patch several years ago that I didn't get onto it straight away.

 

[PerfectDepth]

One note on BBA and flow rate...I would sometimes find it growing on along the back where flow was low. I also found it growing on the output of the HOB filter. The latter did not make sense.


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Makes sense to me- a little "shelf" close to the light source with great flow. Algae prefers good flow, lots of co2, etc. the same as plants. It's just that plants are more complex than algae, so these factors are generally not as crucial for algae.

 

[PerfectDepth]

I commented on grow-out tanks with no fish in your other poll thread. Something I've noticed is that adding large doses of PO4, 5 ppm worth at a time, seems to quite noticeably speed up growth (when everything else is right). Another thing, because faster growth equals greater co2 demand, it also will tell you right away whether the co2 concentration is sufficient or not. Carbon deficiency will be very apparent, and this is where many people make the mistake of chasing other nutrients or targeting certain ratios to try to fix what is really a lack of carbon.

 

[Delapool]

I must confess I rate co2 quite highly now. I've picked up a second co2 bottle today so I can just swap them over rather than waiting a week to get a refill on the weekend. Today both local shops had run out of co2 - gave up then and bought a second bottle.

 

[Mebbid]

I dont remember the name of the rule, and im out of town to post the link. But in short, all it requires to grow something is the minimum amount of nutrients it needs to grow. That is, (random example) if a plant needs 0.5ppm of phosphate to grow then increasing that to 10ppm wont increase the growth rate. Since algae is basically a plant, it goes under the same rule. Algae requires very little nutrients to grow so moving above that level isnt increasing its growth rate.

 

[Fresh2o]

You are referring to Liebig's Law of the Minimum


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[Mebbid]

You are referring to Liebig's Law of the Minimum


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Yeppers

 

[jarrod0987]

I commented on grow-out tanks with no fish in your other poll thread. Something I've noticed is that adding large doses of PO4, 5 ppm worth at a time, seems to quite noticeably speed up growth (when everything else is right). Another thing, because faster growth equals greater co2 demand, it also will tell you right away whether the co2 concentration is sufficient or not. Carbon deficiency will be very apparent, and this is where many people make the mistake of chasing other nutrients or targeting certain ratios to try to fix what is really a lack of carbon.

I assume carbon deficiency would look like melting or holes?

 

[bcarl_10gal]

I dont remember the name of the rule, and im out of town to post the link. But in short, all it requires to grow something is the minimum amount of nutrients it needs to grow. That is, (random example) if a plant needs 0.5ppm of phosphate to grow then increasing that to 10ppm wont increase the growth rate. Since algae is basically a plant, it goes under the same rule. Algae requires very little nutrients to grow so moving above that level isnt increasing its growth rate.

Great point Mebbid. The main factors that I have observed and seen proven is algae is closer related to flow, co2/light balance, good tank maintenance. I have varied Po4 in my tanks anywhere between 1-10ppm and have seen to noticeable change in algae. As long as you have enough for the plants to grow the plant will have no additional growth. It really is all about Co2 distribution and light balance.

 

[Delapool]

I assume carbon deficiency would look like melting or holes?

In my case I ran a centre LED with no CO2 for a week and hygro plants under that from memory got black spots on new and old leaves.

It looked a bit like k [FONT=&quot]deficiency (except on all leaves) as spots were within leaf and not on margin. It did look a little different in that the black spots never developed holes but the leaves never did well, even after getting CO2 back on. Was glut dosing at time but not enough to match the LED light apparently.[/FONT]