b-day surprise...

[Calqless]

So today is my birthday, i make a trip to my LFS yesterday as i decided to get myself a newbie coral, i got a toadstool leather. After I got it put in and situated I go eat. I come back look at my fishes who all kinda hide when when the giant blue and red plastic arms of the Maintainer start sloshing around the water. I get a glimpse of my flame angel,and i see what looks like a whitehead (HS wasnt that far away so i forgot that look) under one of his eye i watch it for a while and he looks a bit "salty" so i research and come to conclusion its ich. OH NOES!!! Im setting up a QT, so i can do hypo-salinity treatment for awhile. Is there anything else i should try and do, or things i should look out for other than watching my other fish (2 clowns, a bicolor dottyback, 3 peppermint shrimp, and a purple firefish) for signs (none yet)?? all in all still a better Bday than 2012......

 

[BigRedsReefs10]

You should catch all your fish and qt/treat them with what ever method you choose (copper meds have always worked best for me) and leave the dt fallow for 8-12 weeks. Do not transfer any of the inverts to the qt if you use a copper based med, and don't transfer any water back to the dt.

 

[TheTodd]

If you do hypo, make sure you use a refractometer. You want the salinity precise. If it is too high, you are doing nothing to kill it.

If you do not plan to add more fish, you could also just see if the Flame can fight it off, especially if it is just one spot. Maintain pristine water, keep stress low and provide proper nutrition and some fish can overcome with nothing more than that.

My Picasso Trigger has a spot on its tail that is not Ich. Kinda looks like it, but it never spreads and did not disappear after 7 weeks in hypo.

 

[Gregcoyote]

It might be a loose scale or a bit of sand stuck to him. Be sure it's a parasite before acting.

 

[Calqless]

how would i make sure?? Vets dont really look at fish...lol i dont know any fish whispers... i just got in a BRS a dual reactor... can you let them tough it out?? thats how i usually deal with cold/flu until it becomes too much (third week)? I have read about garlic oil supplements (i guess) that help the immune system with could help beat it off.. I usually keep the temp around 80 so cant really move it up much more. I dont really want to move all my fishes to a QT since all i have open are a 20L and a 7 column (with FW in it) the PWC dont matter cuz hopefully i got my RoDi workin right (lets pray)..

 

[Gregcoyote]

Just keep a close eye on them, that spot, if it's ICH will drop back off again, but if anymore appear I would get busy. I believe in low stress to be the best way to keep ICH off your fish, but you can get a chain reaction going with it that can effect all your fish. That's when steps need to be taken to prevent that. But to immediately QT all your fish just raises their stress levels, so the cure might be worse than one instance of ICH.

 

[Calqless]

so your saying it could be like methadone??? the cure can be as bad or worse than the disease

 

[Gregcoyote]

Maybe. I have argued this for a long time. Fish and people live in environments where there are biological predators. If you have AIDs your immune system is open to attack by organisms that would never have a chance to infect you if your immune system was working. We swim in a ocean of these predators. Fish depend on their slime coats for this protection. Surgeonfish (tangs) have some of the thinnest slime coats out there, making them a target of parasites if that coating gets compromised. Some suggest the "boy in the bubble" approach to eliminating every possible parasite and pathogen is the way to proceed. But in my view, that's a loaded gun ready to go off if any parasite gets introduced inadvertently. My evidence is that healthy stress free fish can avoid ICH as long as conditions don't exist with sick fish as hosts to allow a bloom of the parasite, in the case of a bloom, even healthy fish could get overwhelmed. So careful livestock selection based on your current fish population and swimming/hiding room are huge factors in reducing the risks. A good diet seals the deal.

 

[Calqless]

think it was too late... he was swimmin around before i left for dinner with my Dad, i get home and he is upside down, just kinda waiting..moved to a QT sooner than i wanted, wasnt sure how the bio had developed, but now he wont die in DT...

 

[Gregcoyote]

I'm sure sorry.

 

[Calqless]

it happens, all i can do is learn from it and try to prevent it, make a trip to the store in the morning and get a what i need to set up a tank for awhile and ill just farrow the DT

 

[Holygral]

there are only 3 known proven treatments of MI. And ALL must be done in a qt. 1.Copper, instructions must be followed to a T, MUST be done in QT, very hard on the fish, 2.Hypo, to be done correctly it needs to be done with a refractometer, swing arms are to inaccurate and inconsistent, must be down in a qt, may take 4-8 weeks, and a lesser use transfer method, uses a ton of salt rodi and labor. Also DT will need to be fallow (fish less) for 8-10 weeks for MI to die off without a host (fish) to keep it multiplying. There are NO reef safe meds, ick out, ick cure, ick rid or any of the other snake oils out there. Ick outbreaks are caused by stress and any Tang in a small tank will be stressed out, they swim 25 miles or more a day. Also do not do copper and hypo at the same time.
Fish get ich from stress, too small of a tank, too many fish, incompatable tank mates. Or bad unstable parameters. I personally don't qt or am sure I believe in it. I have 3 tangs all from different sources and have never had to deal with it, is it luck or a stress free tank, really hard to tell. Unless you are goingbto qt EVERYTHING, fish, corals, lr, or anything wet, then you are not going to keep it out of your tank. Just remember there are NO safe reef proven ich meds,:

 

[Calqless]

this Flame Angel was fine as far as i could tell monday when i did my weekly 1/3 WC, had i not gotten the toadstool, i probaly wouldnt have even noticed it, until he was laying at the bottom of tank, as i would of been out bar hopping and partaking in various task for entertainment(read acting like im 21 again). could using a different salt have stressed him enough to help with the infection? I used a 10g thing of instant ocean to supplement when my red sea ran out before my new one arrived. My water parameter are getting better, ammoni, and nitrite always at 0 phosphate finally down to 0 and nitrite in btween 20-30 but thats down from 40-60. I lost (cant find) another fish my purple firefish, i cant find him in my tank, i dont see any remains but idk he was small enough that he could have slipped into my vacuum WC tube. i figure ill do another WC today and sift thru sand with a pic to look for evidence of the crime....cue law and order theme song!!1