Celestial Pearl Danios and Dwarf Puffer?

[lostintheforest]

Hi everyone,
Just looking for some stocking advice. I currently have a 6 gallon fluval edge nano tank (fully cycled and planted) with 7 Celestial Pearl Danios, one Cherry red Shrimp, and one nerite snail. The CPD's seem pretty happy but spend most of the time around the bottom of the tank (in the xmas moss) and rarely ever venture into the mid to upper parts of the water column. I was thinking about adding a Dwarf Puffer for a little more personality and to have something to occupy the rest of the aquarium. Do you think that adding the dwarf puffer would be too much for my biofilter to handle? If so, do you have any recommendations for other fish that are somewhat more active than the CPD's and that also swim in a different depth?

I actually have another question as well, this time regarding my cherry red shrimp. I originally started off with around 8 red cherry shrimp, but slowly, one by one, they've all died off except for one and i'm not sure why. I noticed that the shrimp began to turn a much deeper red (with some parts appearing almost black) right before they died (they also have developed a lighter stripe down the back). Anyone know what that could mean? That said, the sole survivor seems to be doing well (she has gotten darker as well), but so far seems to be doing all right. Just can't figure out what went wrong.

Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrates are all at decent levels, and I have been dosing with .5ml of Flourish Excel every other day. I also use about .5ml of prime during water changes (even if i'm only chaning 10%).

Thanks in advance for your advice!

 

[librarygirl]

Not too much for the biofilter but dwarf puffers are very aggressive and do best in species-only tanks; even a 10 gal could only hold two. The CPDs would become an expensive snack very quickly. CPDs are mid-bottom level swimmers; I have a couple that venture to the top now and then but they mostly stay along the bottom; getting food to them can become very tricky with other fish in the tank too particularly top-level swimmers as CPDs are shy and not very fast so they are often out-competed for food. Unfortunately in a 6 gal edge you don't really have any other options for stocking a top level fish. Is the tank heavily planted? CPDs often feel safer with a lot of hiding places and if the tank is full of plants and other places to hide you'll see them venture out to other areas more but again their nature is to stay toward the lower level for the most part.

I believe shrimp (at least some) turn darker when stressed. What's your water change schedule? Also what is your PH and the tank temp? Shrimp are pretty sensitive when it comes to shifts in parameters and some can be picky about PH and temperature. Have you found dead shrimp or are they just disappearing?

Also what filter is on the tank? Is the intake covered? Shrimp tend to get sucked into the filters, even if there's something covering the intake. I'd check your filter for shrimp too.

 

[lostintheforest]

Thank you librarygirl, for again providing some excellent advice.
Unfortunately when i got home from work today i noticed one of my male CPD up at the very top of the tank sort of floating in the cabomba i have planted. it certainly is not in good shape, and has since sunk to the bottom of the tank where it is upside down and breathing very fast. :'(. I'm very worried and upset about it, and am not sure what i can do to help him.
your advice about the shrimp made me realize what the potential problem is: temperature. I live in southern california and we've been having a couple month long heat wave which has been throwing off the temp of my tank severely. its been getting up to 85 degrees f according to my aquarium thermometer and i'm guessing that is what is causing my animals stress. i've been freezing water bottles and putting them in the tank when i get home from work, which seems to drop the temp down to about 76F but while im at work it must be getting too hot for them. i'm frantically checking the water parameters but so far everything looks perfect: Ph= 7.6, Ammonia=0, Nitrates=0. the only thing i can think of is the temperature...
looking at my male CPD who looks like he's dying, i can see some kind of discoloration on one side of his body and it almost looks like there is a lump or something on that side (it could just be the way his body is positioned). I don't want to cause any more stress to him so i've added an ice bottle to the water and am letting it cool down. it really looks like this guy is not going to pull through though (if so it will be my first fatality). If that is the case i will try to get some photos of him so you can maybe see if there is something physically wrong with him.
looks like my aquarium is in no state for an additional tank mate at the moment, at least not until i isolate the problem.
sorry if this is a bit scattered, i'm very worried about the rest of the fish and am not sure what else to do.

 

[librarygirl]

Temps are a bit high. The fluctuations could be causing problems too (hot during the day then ice at night). CPDs prefer cooler temps: low-mid 70's. Do you have an air stone? Higher temps cause less oxygen in the water so increased surface agitation can help by lowering the water level so there's good splashing from the filter or adding an air stone. Sorry about your fish....sometimes it's hard to tell what's wrong. Try adding an air stone at least to increase some oxygen in there. Do you have an air conditioner you could run during the day or maybe blow a fan across the tank to try to cool it down? Shrimp are sensitive to temps too and anything too high can kill them so I'm guessing the temp fluctuations might be an issue for them too (although check the filter just in case lol).

Also you said nitrates and ammonia are 0...do you mean nitrIte is 0? If not what is nitrite? There should be some nitrates in there unless you just did a water change.

 

[lostintheforest]

Thanks for the immediate reply! I don't have an air stone, but it sounds like i should get one asap (thank you for explaining the relationship between higher temps and o2 levels). I too was worried about the dramatic change in temperature, but i saw online some suggestions to use the bottle and couldn't think of another way to cool down the water. unfortunately i do not have ac in my room (i wish!!) and because of the design of my tank (the fluval edge has a cuboid look, where the opening at the top is relatively small and awkward to get to). i suppose i could lower the water level and try to angle a fan in the hole on top...
I was talking about the nitrates before, and frankly am also confused how I got a 0-5ppm reading as well. i have not done a water change since last week, and even then i only changed about 10-15%. do you think i'm overdosing with prime or something? Anyway the nitrites are also 0 so i'm thinking it's either the temp or the prime, or disease, but the rest of the fish seem to be just fine...
hmm, it's frustrating not knowing what's wrong/how to help
thanks again for sharing your wisdom, i will definitely be adding an airstone soon, hope it helps.

 

[julielover]

Your 6G tank is too crowded. You should really have only 7 Danios and no other fish. Do you have plenty of plants for your shrimp to hide in? Puffers are predatory fish. Do they try to eat your Shrimp?

 

[Wiggles24]

Doesn't have a puffer, just considering one

 

[lostintheforest]

Well sadly the little male CPD has crossed the rainbow bridge...I took some photos after I took him out and noticed that his scales were spiked up all over his body and that discoloration I mentioned earlier looks like missing scales. Now I'm worried it is some kind of infection....any ideas what happened based on the pics?

 

[librarygirl]

The pine-coning of the scales is an indicator of Dropsy but it's hard to tell for sure. There is something wrong with the coloration on it's side too. Dropsy isn't a disease in itself but an indicator of other factors -- temp swings are one, stress is another, poor diet another.

What do you feed them and how often?

I'd also increase your water changes to 30-50% weekly to keep things clean and vacuum the substrate each time as well to suck up old food and waste that can pollute the water.

If the other fish are not showing symptoms I'd just keep an eye on things for now and increase your water changes. The temp swings are going to be problematic though.

 

[lostintheforest]

I see, I didn't know about dropsy, based on the photos i've looked at, seems like that's what this poor guy had. dropsy explains the pinecone effect, but i wonder what caused the de-scaleing/discoloration. it almost looks like they just rubbed off.
so far i've just been feeding them a small pinch of crushed up flake food twice a day. i was thinking that i should probably diversify their diet a little bit but the guy at my lfs seemed to think that the flake food would be ok (he did suggest daphnia or bloodworms if i wanted to spice things up). have you noticed your CPD's show a preference for some type of food in particular?
I was originally doing regular 30% water changes for a while, but it seemed like large water changes stressed the animals out more so cut down a bit (i came to this conclusion because it seemed like one of my shrimp would die within 24 hours of a major water change). i'm still confused by how i could have almost no nitrates, despite not doing major water changes or vacuuming the gravel... isn't that a sign that the water is not highly polluted with waste? i suppose I could have gotten inaccurate results due to my methodology, but i'm pretty confident i mixed the solution adequately.
i will be keeping a close eye on the rest of my CPD's and try to cool the tank down more gradually in the future...
thanks librarygirl

 

[librarygirl]

Flakes are OK, they tend to float at the top and CPDs tend to prefer to eat as the food falls down. The CPD you have looks a bit on the thin side but hard to tell why. I primarily feed New LIfe Spectum or HIkari micropellets (the .5mm size)--I soak them for a minute or so in tank water then drop them in. As they fall the fish eat them. I feed ground up flakes once or twice a week instead of the pellets. I also give them treats of frozen daphnia or bloodworms or shrimp once a week or so.

Shake and bang both nitrate bottles for 30 seconds and the test tube for a full minute; test can be inaccurate if not done correctly.

 

[lostintheforest]

Wow sounds like your fish are certainly well fed! I'm going to pick up some daphnia or bloodworms next time I'm at the lfs along w an air stone. The flakes seem to be working out though they float around the surface until they hit the stream from the filter then they shoot down towards the bottom and the cpd's go nuts!! Feeding time is pretty much the only time I can get a really good look at them, so far the others don't seem to have any discoloration or pine-coning going on, but I'm keeping an extra close eye on them. Just for future reference, what's the best thing to do if I notice one of the others looks iffy? Quarantine? I know it depends on what the cause of the problem is, but I was having a mental debate with my male about whether to leave it in the tank and risk making the others sick, or quarantining it and risk killing it from the stress of transplanting/isolation.

 

[librarygirl]

Wow sounds like your fish are certainly well fed! I'm going to pick up some daphnia or bloodworms next time I'm at the lfs along w an air stone. The flakes seem to be working out though they float around the surface until they hit the stream from the filter then they shoot down towards the bottom and the cpd's go nuts!! Feeding time is pretty much the only time I can get a really good look at them, so far the others don't seem to have any discoloration or pine-coning going on, but I'm keeping an extra close eye on them. Just for future reference, what's the best thing to do if I notice one of the others looks iffy? Quarantine? I know it depends on what the cause of the problem is, but I was having a mental debate with my male about whether to leave it in the tank and risk making the others sick, or quarantining it and risk killing it from the stress of transplanting/isolation.

Yeah my fish are pretty spoiled. I actually feed them small amounts of whatever I give them so they'd probably argue that they're underfed lol I found my CPDs ate better when I turned the filter off during feeding. I'm using a canister with a spray bar so food tends to get thrown around; if that's happening to you as well maybe turn it off during feeding if you can and see if that makes a difference. Mine were starting to get thin (and I have other fish in with them which makes feeding more complicated as the CPDs are shy and not as fast as other fish) and turning off the filters is working well. If they're able to get food though then it might be an issue with you, just thought I'd mention it just in case.

As for quarantining it really depends on what's going on. If it's something like Ich or columnaris that's contagious it's best to treat the whole tank. If it's one solitary fish showing other symptoms (shredded fins, lethargic, etc) then you can try to QT and treat the one fish. It's really a case-by-case basis that involves research and a judgement call.