Columnaris Outbreak?

[DeirdreHoyle]

Are you pre mixing the baking soda with water? Maybe increase the dosage slightly or do the same amount but twice a day.

No I usually just take a 1/3rd teaspoon measuring spoon and dump it in the filter behind the carbon. I know I shouldn't do it that way but that's how I've always done it lol...bad habit. I'll try premixing it and then upping the dose and keep you updated.

 

[Noviceafter2yea]

No I usually just take a 1/3rd teaspoon measuring spoon and dump it in the filter behind the carbon. I know I shouldn't do it that way but that's how I've always done it lol...bad habit. I'll try premixing it and then upping the dose and keep you updated.

Yeah, premix and I'm thinking putting it or anything like it in the filter isn't great. Carbon,removes a lot of stuff like meds so it may be (and I don't know for sure) making the baking soda useless. I premix, let,dissolve and add,directly to tank.

Good luck!

 

[Matt68005]

It could just be fungus, not columnaris. Yes, the the treatment shoudl have helped columnaris. But, if you have a fungus you might need a different treatment, and another thing to consider is that columnaris is tough to treat and can be notoriously difficult to actually subdue.
Is the fungus on the mouth?
I have had fungus pop up after ich treatments twice because the fish get it since they are a bit weakened after the treatment. It has cleared up pretty easy both times with extra pwc after my ich treatment was done.
Can you get pics? If not, look into the difference between true fungus and columnaris.
I am sorry you are having all these troubles, this must be quite frustrating.

HEY! you live in lincoln, my hometown. (Go huskers)
Actually, Nitrofurazone is a anti-microbal, its suppose to kill fungus and microbes, not Gram negative bacteria.
If the Furan didn't cure it, then it may well be columnaris.
Best thing you can do is find some "Kanaplex" or kanamycin sulfate antibiotic to go along with the furan. I know furan claims to kill columnaris and the other two gram negative bacteria, but it has never worked for me, it only kills microbes/mold and gram positive bacteria.
Let us know more about them and you can not waste money, possibly save them and make an informed buy not just guessing, which everyone hates.
Edit: Sorry didnt realize there was a page two. Primafix and just keeping the water clean by vacuming and doing religious PWC should be enough to keep fungus at bay, another thing you could try is as my fellow cornhusker stated Methylene Blue or Malachite Green. Honestly ive personally never had much luck with furan, but some people swear by it.

 

[DeirdreHoyle]

HEY! you live in lincoln, my hometown. (Go huskers)
Actually, Nitrofurazone is a anti-microbal, its suppose to kill fungus and microbes, not Gram negative bacteria.
If the Furan didn't cure it, then it may well be columnaris.
Best thing you can do is find some "Kanaplex" or kanamycin sulfate antibiotic to go along with the furan. I know furan claims to kill columnaris and the other two gram negative bacteria, but it has never worked for me, it only kills microbes/mold and gram positive bacteria.
Let us know more about them and you can not waste money, possibly save them and make an informed buy not just guessing, which everyone hates.
Edit: Sorry didnt realize there was a page two. Primafix and just keeping the water clean by vacuming and doing religious PWC should be enough to keep fungus at bay, another thing you could try is as my fellow cornhusker stated Methylene Blue or Malachite Green. Honestly ive personally never had much luck with furan, but some people swear by it.

Yeah I never buy things without research even when my lovely aquarium friends recommend things It's funny when I read reviews on furan some people swear by it and others say it does nothing....not much middle ground. But it seems to have worked for me to cure the fin rot. I'm really hesitant to use the methylene or malachite because of the bb/pH problems I'm having right now and the fungus seems to have gotten better

 

[BillD]

One issue with antibiotics is the recommended dose. it is often too low to be effective. This, supposedly, has to do with placating the FDA to allow the drugs to be sold over the counter. Another issue is that if there is a really heavy load of pathogens, it may take to long to wipe the bacteria out. A large water change should be done before any treatment to reduce the number of water borne pathogens. it will make the treatment more effective.
As to adding something like baking soda, I would just drop it into a quiet area of the tank and allow it dissolve slowly rather than premixing and adding. Ditto to adding salt. At the local Big Al's they put the salt in a container such as small jar or bowl and place that into the tank to slow dissolution. I think this is the best method, allowing a slower rise in TDS.

 

[absolutangel04]

She used furan 2 with has Furazolidone as well as Nitrofurazone and does indeed kill gram negative bacteria as well as positive. The thing with meds is, there is always an aspect of "your mileage may vary" because it is very difficult to know exactly what you are dealing with when faced with an issue on a microscopic level while 3 different issues present themselves in roughly the same way. Also, there is the effect of dosage, water chemistry, severity of infection ect. I would certainly not say that Furan 2 does not kill gram negative bacteria just because it did not work in an individual case. Especially since it cured the fin rot which is generally caused by gram negative bacteria. I fully agree about the dosages being part of the ymmv. A larger dose of this stuff is generally better. In the case of treating a scaleless fish though, I prefer to suggest doing the normal dose and seeing how it goes before going with more. Also, additional treatments are often necessary, depending on the severity of in infection. Just like with people. I have seen this stuff work a bunch of times in a lot of situations when it was used correctly for the correct issues. Columnaris is its own unique beast that can very tricky to beat. It often requires multiple doses of multiple antibiotics to eradicate and can get really out of hand.
I honestly don't think you have columnaris. I don't think this fits enough of the symptoms to warrant that diagnosis yet. It could be, but I am skeptical. It does, however, very much fit the bill for a true fungus.
Since it is healing up, I would just continue to do what you are doing and see how it goes.
Good for you for doing your research too. ymmv means some things work in different situations and there is not always one right answer, even though we sometimes make it sound like that.

 

[DeirdreHoyle]

Yeah +1 to absoluteangel, I should have said this in my previous reply; I am 99% sure I don't have columnaris. The fish would have gotten more sick much faster than they have if it were columnaris. And with Kuhlis and my pleco I didn't want to do a huge dose because I was scared I would hurt them. This is the first time I've used a strong antibiotic med (except when I had Ich when I first got into the hobby). That is a very interesting idea about the salt and the tds. I really wanna use salt but I'm worried my plants won't handle it well....they're already wilting since the pH has fallen so much :/

 

[DeirdreHoyle]

One issue with antibiotics is the recommended dose. it is often too low to be effective. This, supposedly, has to do with placating the FDA to allow the drugs to be sold over the counter. Another issue is that if there is a really heavy load of pathogens, it may take to long to wipe the bacteria out. A large water change should be done before any treatment to reduce the number of water borne pathogens. it will make the treatment more effective.
As to adding something like baking soda, I would just drop it into a quiet area of the tank and allow it dissolve slowly rather than premixing and adding. Ditto to adding salt. At the local Big Al's they put the salt in a container such as small jar or bowl and place that into the tank to slow dissolution. I think this is the best method, allowing a slower rise in TDS.

I've been doing 25% water changes every 2 days since the treatment ended. I'm seeing a bacterial bloom right now and no nitrites or ammonia..nitrates at around 15 ppm. Hopefully this mini cycle goes quickly.
Is there a reason you suggest not premixing and adding baking soda? It's much easier to just put it in so I'll gladly do that but I'm just curious

 

[Matt68005]

Hmm. Dang mold. The best treatment for this in the future might be kordons "Rid ich plus" I know its not labed for it but it contains malachite + Formalin, and these two are an awsome Non BB killing treatment for fungus/protozoans as long as you DON'T go over the reccomended dose! Same with pure malachite, but Methylene blue is also Better at killing fungus(Mold) , but it absolutely does kill BB. I guess its just your personal preference. Buy a bottle of liquid malachite or methylene or buy some "fungus Cure" tabs from petsmart, heck even the primafix will work as long as you keep your substrate and filters cleaner. People who say "theres never enough BB" have never had high nitrates and fungus problems as a result. Its more of a nice balance, Not enough is bad, Too much is bad. You do still need to clean filters about 1-2 times a month. What i usually do is just do a PWC and then swish/squeee out your filter pad in the water you just took out so that its clean and runs/sucks but its still seeded with BB.

 

[absolutangel04]

I've been doing 25% water changes every 2 days since the treatment ended. I'm seeing a bacterial bloom right now and no nitrites or ammonia..nitrates at around 15 ppm. Hopefully this mini cycle goes quickly.
Is there a reason you suggest not premixing and adding baking soda? It's much easier to just put it in so I'll gladly do that but I'm just curious

I never pre-mix salt when I add it, the filter does that for me and I have never had an issue with it. Never used baking soda though, so I will let Bill answer that.

 

[Delapool]

One issue with antibiotics is the recommended dose. it is often too low to be effective. This, supposedly, has to do with placating the FDA to allow the drugs to be sold over the counter. Another issue is that if there is a really heavy load of pathogens, it may take to long to wipe the bacteria out. A large water change should be done before any treatment to reduce the number of water borne pathogens. it will make the treatment more effective.
As to adding something like baking soda, I would just drop it into a quiet area of the tank and allow it dissolve slowly rather than premixing and adding. Ditto to adding salt. At the local Big Al's they put the salt in a container such as small jar or bowl and place that into the tank to slow dissolution. I think this is the best method, allowing a slower rise in TDS.

Is it possible to overdose an antibiotic? I mean if I over dosed MG and formalin for ich by say 50% by accident I'd go and do a water change. Would it be the same for an antibiotic??

 

[absolutangel04]

Is it possible to overdose an antibiotic? I mean if I over dosed MG and formalin for ich by say 50% by accident I'd go and do a water change. Would it be the same for an antibiotic??

Yes. But, as long as you are not dealing with a super sensitive fish, the overdose amount is generally a fair bit higher than the prescribed dosage.Some meds even say on the package that you can go above he prescribed dose in severe cases. Of course, one must still use some caution with potentially sensitive fish.

 

[Delapool]

Yes. But, as long as you are not dealing with a super sensitive fish, the overdose amount is generally a fair bit higher than the prescribed dosage.Some meds even say on the package that you can go above he prescribed dose in severe cases. Of course, one must still use some caution with potentially sensitive fish.

Thanks

 

[DeirdreHoyle]

Good news! I checked my pH today and it's raised to 6.4! My goal is around 6.8 or 7.0 but I'm glad it's gone up some. Also, the fungus has pretty much disappeared from the kuhlis. So happy!! I stopped adding baking soda a few days ago because I figured a really low constant pH was probably better than sharp rises and falls.
The water looks clear, my plants are looking green and perky and I am just so relieved I went out and got all these sensitive fish (kuhlis and GBRs) and I was worried I'd lose them to disease and bad water. Thanks for all the help everyone!

 

[Noviceafter2yea]

Yeah! It's always nice to read about success.

 

[Matt68005]

Yes overdosing with an antibiotic can lead to liver and kidney failure in a fish and fast death. This is expecially true with overdosing Kanamycin
With the formalin/malachite its always 5ml per ten gallons so pretty hard to overdose, it will kill off your BB if you go higher but you can go higher without killing the fish.

 

[Delapool]

Yes overdosing with an antibiotic can lead to liver and kidney failure in a fish and fast death. This is expecially true with overdosing Kanamycin
With the formalin/malachite its always 5ml per ten gallons so pretty hard to overdose, it will kill off your BB if you go higher but you can go higher without killing the fish.

Thanks! Actually MG and formalin I have little trouble with. I know they have been around for years and old-hat meds but as long as not completely new fish and new tank I don't have many losses.