Figure-8 Puffer (converted to marine)

[AdamHorton]

Hi, I'll start off by saying that I'm not entirely sure which board this post belongs in, so if it needs moved, I won't be offended at all. This is just my best guess:

We've been wanting a Figure-8 Puffer for quite some time and this weekend at the LFS they had several Figure-8's that looked young (1 - 1.25 inches) and were already living in full marine water. They looked healthy, active, and happy so we thought we'd pick one up.

Right now he's living in a 10G tank. I know he will need more room shortly, and I have a 20G tall tank ready to go, it will just be easier to move him in there when I move within the next 6 months. The filter is an AC20, and the Bio-Max material has been in my 150G SW tank for at least 8 months. Tests show no ammonia or nitrite yet, and about 40 ppm nitrate (same as the SW tank -- I used water from that tank to initially fill this one). It's *possible* still that there will be problems with cycling but if so, they haven't shown up yet.

I measured the water from the fish store and the SG was 1.025, same as my SW tank.

A couple of observations. I wouldn't quite say I'm worried yet or that it's a problem, but I'll start a thread (and I'll post pictures soon) to share if nothing else, and maybe get some pointers if I'm lucky.

First, he seems to hate me. I know most of my fish hate me unless they know it's almost feeding time, but his hate seems a little more pronounced than usual. Maybe he'll get over it, I guess we'll see... He seems very active for a puffer fish, and he likes playing in the bubbles from the air stone I have in there.

Second, feeding. The first night after we got him he didn't accept anything we put in the tank. I have frozen bloodworms that previous puffers devoured, but this guy isn't so impressed. Granted, the first night I don't know if I got him to realize that it was time to eat, but he just doesn't seem interested in the bloodworms at all. I also have a FW planted tank with an abundance of pond snails I was hoping to feed him, but he didn't care about those either.

Last night, I tried a couple of bloodworms and a couple of snails and he wasn't interested, but I tried some frozen krill also and he actually ate some of that. Once he realized it was time to eat, he proceeded to ignore the other food I placed right in front of him. I'm glad he's eating, though, and getting that far is something I've struggled with in the past with puffers.

I want to try and get him to eat more types of food. I've put 5 or 6 tiny brine shrimp and omega shrimp (leftover from what I feed my SW tank) in there that he ignores also. I'm hoping he eventually warms up to them, because I'm not sure of anything else to try at this point. My top priority is to get him eating snails, though; mostly because I want to get rid of them, but his beak is looking like it could use a trim also -- I guess they didn't care about that at the LFS.

Since these are FW snails and this puffer is living in 1.025 marine water, the snails don't move anymore after I put them in the puffer tank. With previous puffers, if the snails weren't eaten before they hit the bottom of the tank, they usually were ignored until they tried to climb up the side of the tank or something, and I don't have that luxury this time. Does anyone have any tips on how to get this guy to accept snails, or maybe I'm using the wrong kind?

Anyways, there will be pictures soon.

 

[JohnPaul]

It sounds like your puffer has a hard time recognizing anything that's not moving as food. I know nerite snails can live (and breed) in brackish water, maybe full seawater too. Adults would be too large for your puffer to eat but if the eggs hatched and there were juveniles in the tank, that would be a source of snails. I've heard MTS, if acclimated, can live in brackish--not sure if they could take full seawater, and I've heard differing reports on whether their shells are too hard for puffers to take, so they might not be a good choice.

Not sure about other snail possibilities, I can't think of any offhand but I've never kept a marine tank and only have minimal experience with brackish tanks so I can't say for sure.

 

[AdamHorton]

I've heard MTS are a no-no with puffers because their shells are too hard.

The most success I've had with feeding puffers is using forceps to dangle the food in front of them, so maybe my best hope at giving him snails is to try and dangle the snails in front of him. Not sure how that works but I guess I can give it a shot.

When I had puffers in the past, I would put the snails on a spoon and lower it into the tank, and even then it took a while before they realized it was food. Once they did, though, they would see the spoon and know what was coming...

 

[AdamHorton]

Well tonight feeding was about the same as last night. When he saw me he instantly wanted to be far away from me and after a while he took a couple of bites of krill, nothing else.

If I had to guess, krill is the only thing that he's willing to eat right now (which surprises me) and he's just too afraid of me to try anything else.

If there are any more tips on feeding out there I'm certainly willing to try them out.

 

[AdamHorton]

Some more success tonight -- he ate some krill and took a bite at a snail. I tried not to let him see my face and that helped. Maybe he's warming up to his new home.

 

[bengoshi2000]

I'll be the first to tell you that I don't know nuttin' about nuttin', but I have always been under the impression that Fig8 puffers are brackish only and aren't "full marine" fish. If that's true he may be unhappy about the marine salinity.

You may want to ask some questions of the gurus over at The Puffer Forum • Discussion Forum Home

Also read: http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/ug.php/v/PufferPedia/Brackish/T_Biocellatus/

 

[AdamHorton]

Well I've heard that before, but I've also heard (I guess this was for GSPs, but I thought it applied to Figure 8s) that you start them out in brackish (1.005 or so) and you add a little salt every couple of weeks so that by the time they're fully grown they are in full marine (1.025). I thought it was a good thing that this conversion had already been finished while they were still young.

I guess I don't quite understand why (if it's true) saltier water is better for these puffers as they get older, and how/if it applies to a younger puffer like this one...

I'll probably post something on that other forum. I'd be surprised if I get any feedback, but it's worth a shot... thanks for the link

 

[bengoshi2000]

I'll probably post something on that other forum. I'd be surprised if I get any feedback, but it's worth a shot... thanks for the link

Actually, I'd bet you a beer at the local pub that you will get some very helpful responses. I've gotten very good, sound and non-condescending advice over there regarding puffers of all types (including my dwarf puffer).

 

[AdamHorton]

Well I looked around and they actually had a sticky thread about young GSPs in full marine conditions, and everybody that had done it noticed an improvement regardless of what age they switched them over to saltwater. So, my guess is that isn't related to the problem.

I will see if I can find other ways of feeding that are more successful -- the less the fish seems to hate me, the more he eats, and it got a lot better last night, so I have high hopes that things will improve.

 

[bengoshi2000]

Well I looked around and they actually had a sticky thread about young GSPs in full marine conditions, and everybody that had done it noticed an improvement regardless of what age they switched them over to saltwater. So, my guess is that isn't related to the problem.

Ummm... Figure8 and Green Spotted Puffers are entirely different species which require different salinities. When I was researching puffers (trying to decide what type I wanted to get) I read 50+ articles on GSP's and Fig8's (over at The Puffer Forum)... I found nothing that indicated that Fig8's do well in anything much over 1.005 SG.

But I'm no expert... so here is an article by Robert T. Ricketts who has been keeping puffers of all sorts for decades (including a Fig8 for nearly 18 years at 1.005 sg): Figure Eight Puffers - A Great Small Brackish Fish

Why not try slowly dropping the salinity and see if his appetite picks up?

In the end, do what you will, it's your fish. But I think that everyone would agree that incorrect water parameters (even salinity) can affect a fishes appetite and behavior.

 

[Magma]

I have 3 F8 puffers and the salinity of my tank has not been over 1.007 since I got them, and only reason it was that high is because I was matching the LFS water. I slowly moved the water down to 1.005 over the course of a few weeks.

They live in areas where the river runs into the ocean but they are on the lower end of things. So full salt might be whats making him unhappy. Also have you checked his mouth? Do his teeth seem to long and maybe he cant eat properly? Check to see if the overbite is whats the problem, It was with mine when I first got him and I needed to do a trim on his teeth after that he ate live snails and frozen brine shirmp.

Also try Mysis Shrimp, Daphnia, Tubifex Worms, Glass Worms, Krill they are very picky and each one is different so good luck with the feeding

GSP are different than F8 in the fact that they grow up in brackish water and when they are adult they head to SW to mate and breed. which is why over time (6months to a year depending on age of the fish) you can slowly work them up to 1.025 SG and some people have said sooner is better but I hear they do great in SG 1.010 when younger.

Again hope it works for you

 

[AdamHorton]

Wow, I didn't know there was so much of a difference there; if things don't improve the way they have I'll try bringing the salinity down slowly.

I noticed his beak was a little overgrown, which doesn't surprise me because I didn't think LFS would give him snails to keep it down. I've been trying to give him snails to combat that, since I don't really want to attempt trimming it myself -- I'm afraid he'd hate me more than he already does.

I've tried a few of the other foods you've suggested, but not all of them. He didn't eat anything tonight, even though he did really well last night...

 

[DragonFish71]

Also try ghost shrimp. They live fine in BW conditions. We've been keeping a herd of them in our BW tank.

And regular pond snails, the ones that hitchhike in on plants will survive in BW conditions.

our ghost shrimp in the BW tank eat the snails. Keeps the population in check since the dragon gobys are slow eaters.

 

[Magma]

a lot of people assume that a GSP and F8 are so close but they are very different and need a lot of different care for sure.

F8 needs 15G per puffer, GSP tho are closer to 30G each.

GSP will also grown bigger when in full SW compared to when kept in brackish only. Most people report 2-4 inches of growth once introduced into SW.

Other food you might try is mussels, prawns, crab, also heard that sometimes crickets can be feed but only as a treat from time to time never a daily diet.

Each are different it took me probably 6 months before my puffers would actually eat the same food as the others. Also the F8's seem to love planted tanks or lots of hiding spots. Be aware tho that puffers dont eat plants but will nip at them if they see snails or prey on the plants..my plants always had nip marks in them from snails being in the moss.

 

[AdamHorton]

I'm wondering at this point how you feed your puffers: Do you just throw the food on the top of the tank and hope he finds it? What I've been doing is taking a pair of forceps and dangling the food near the top of the tank. Sometimes he finds it and sometimes he doesn't.

I'm still having problems with this fish freaking out whenever I approach the tank. No matter how slowly I come up, when I'm 3 feet or less from the tnak he starts going crazy and even tries to jump out of the tank. I thought this behavior would go away in a few days and he would warm up to me but if anything it's getting worse. What can be done about this?