Goldfish tank questions

[fledglingfish]

So I have a newly set up goldfish tank, 1-3-13. It is 26 gal with an Aqua-Tech 20-40 hob filter & a whisper 20 air pump & 15" air stone, all given to me. I have two goldfish about 2" each from nose to tail & one small plecostomus. My ph is higher 7.2 but steady and the ammonia levels are high. The tank is clear and I have done 4, 25% water changes along with vacuuming to bring it down with no luck. I have also taken out all of the plastic plants & most of the gravel to clean it. I know I need a larger filter and here is where I need some advice. I have heard 2 times or more the recommend size for goldfish and I have heard have two filters. I have looked at the Aqua Clear 50 or 70 but then read that two smaller filters are better. I don't have that much room cut out wise for two unless I got a mini canister filter to add to my current hob filter. I welcome opinions and advise with open arms. The pet stores have been zero help.
Thanks so much!

 

[Oly]

Hi fledgelingfish,
I'm new to fishkeeping, so keep that in mind. It sounds like you did not cycle your tank. Filters do not remove ammonia. They filter & agitate. Good bacteria removes ammonia, converts it to nitrites, another bacteria convert nitrites to nitrates. Nitrates are kept in check with regular water changes and plants. You need to research cycling an aquarium. Since you have fish, you might want to see about purchasing one of the bacteria starters that they sell. It looks like the results for these are spotty at best. Some people love them and some people hate them.
I hope that this helps. I'm new to this, but I did about 6 months of research before starting up.
Good luck, Scott

 

[jlk]

Hi! Welcome to AA!!! Can you please provide some more information so we can better help you? What are your exact numbers for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate & ph? What are you using to test (liquid or strips)? Can you also please test your tap water and post these results?

It sounds like your tank is not cycled yet. Assuming you have low to no ammonia in your tap water, you need to increase your water changes. A good water conditioner such as Prime or Amquel Plus will help to limit the toxicity of ammonia and nitrite. You will want to change 50% of the water at time with temperature matched, properly conditioned water. It may take multiple water changes to bring your ammonia and/or nitrite level down to .25ppm or less. Dont be afraid to do back to back water changes to bring your toxin levels under control.

In respect to adding filtration, it will depend on what you are able to fit and what you can afford. The aquatech 20-40 is only rated at @150 gph (gallons per hour). You want to aim for 260+gph filtration on a 26g with goldfish. I would add either another 200-300+gph HOB type filter or a small canister. The AC50 is rated at 200gph and the AC70 is rated at 300gph. I would opt for the 70 if you would like an AC. I will post some links below with more info on fish-in cycling and goldfish- please ask if you have any questions!

I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?! - Aquarium Advice

http://www.myaquariumclub.com/goldfish-101-11174823.html

 

[fledglingfish]

I did cycle my tank and two weeks ago ammonia levels were between 0 & 0.25 ppm. Currently my level is 4.0 ppm in the tank. My tap water ammonia level is 0 ppm & ph is 7.2, same as the tank. I have used AquaSafe by Tetea for initial tank fill & with every water change. I guess I need to re-cycle the tank? My fish are active & eating but currently have ich.... So have raised temp & started salt treatment with salt use on the low side since I have read so many conflicting things regarding that. I am debating giving them a salt bath. They are both healthy other than ich, so I would think they could handle it. Thanks for the filter links, I will take a look. Just for the record, I did research setting up a tank before I started this and have continued to research various things regarding goldfish tanks. I am now frustrated considering I have done everything I read about to properly set up a tank. I am not one to fail or give up, but I'm getting close to that point.

 

[jlk]

Can I ask how you cycled your tank prior to adding fish? Do you have tests for nitrite and nitrate as well?

Right now with 4ppm of ammonia, your tank is not cycled and water changes will be a must here. What temp do you have your tank at? Turning up the temp to treat ich with goldfish is not recommended and really is only suitable for treating ich in tropicals. Salt (.3%) will easily treat ich in goldfish and is the preferred method of treatment. However, before starting treatment with salt, you will need to bring your toxin levels under control. Salt baths will not help as the ich parasite is in your tank and your tank as well as your fish need to be treated. If you read the Goldfish 101 guide linked above, using salt to treat ich is covered. If you have any questions about using salt or are unsure on how to proceed, please ask and we shall gladly help!

 

[fledglingfish]

I let it run for 2 weeks with an old filter & gravel from stable tank. I do not have a test for nitrite and nitrate and hesitate taking a sample to pet smart. My temp had been at 68 and is now at 78 so far. Over 50% of the articles I read, many on this site said to raise the temp even for goldfish. Like I said, some say heat & salt, some say just heat or just salt & some say meds are the only way to go for ich. I read the link for cycling & it seemed the best way to re-cycle is to get rid of fish and start over. If I was going to do that I need not go any farther. My goal is to keep the fish I have, I kinda thought that was the point. My tank was fine & dandy with proper levels two weeks ago. Some people has said I changed the water too often. With all of the conflicting info I am uncertain how to proceed.

 

[Fresh2o]

I let it run for 2 weeks with an old filter & gravel from stable tank. I do not have a test for nitrite and nitrate and hesitate taking a sample to pet smart. My temp had been at 68 and is now at 78 so far. Over 50% of the articles I read, many on this site said to raise the temp even for goldfish. Like I said, some say heat & salt, some say just heat or just salt & some say meds are the only way to go for ich. I read the link for cycling & it seemed the best way to re-cycle is to get rid of fish and start over. If I was going to do that I need not go any farther. My goal is to keep the fish I have, I kinda thought that was the point. My tank was fine & dandy with proper levels two weeks ago. Some people has said I changed the water too often. With all of the conflicting info I am uncertain how to proceed.

Using an old filter and gravel was a good start but IMO during the 2 week period that followed, the biological bacteria had nothing to feed upon so they declined in numbers. The addition of the fish created an ammonia spike that the filter could not handle, thus the high level. While I cannot address an Ich treatment for goldfish, it appears that partial water changes will still be required because the ammonia will need to be kept in check.
I did a restart (old filter + gravel) similar to this but added the fish right away and it was fine. Ammonia/nitrites did not spike. However, fish ended up getting Ich because I did not quarantine some new additions. Treated with Kordons Ich Attack or Rid Ich with no salt (because of the plants) plus 83 F temp (fish are tropical) and this were better after 3 weeks.

 

[jlk]

Unfortunately, it sounds like what you have been reading is a bit misguided. Letting a tank run will do little to cycle it unless you are adding an ammonia source. This process typically takes anywhere from a few weeks to much longer depending on the amount of seeded material used. Any good bacteria you may have added from the cycled tank likely starved from a lack of an ammonia source. I would suggest investing in a nitrite and nitrate test in order to assess your tanks progress through a cycle. When fully cycled, your tank will have zero ammonia and nitrite and some amount of nitrates that will be controlled through water changes.

The fish-in cycle article does 'suggest' returning fish but it also explains how to proceed safely through a fish-in cycle using water changes to keep your fish healthy and happy. It will take some work on your behalf but fish-in cycles are perfectly fine and safe. You simply need to keep your levels of ammonia and nitrite at or below .25ppm with water changes until your tank is fully cycled.

The best method for treating goldfish with ich is simply increasing increasing the salinity to .3% and maintaining this (along with lots of water changes) for one week after the last the last spot is gone. This typically takes about two weeks and is by far the safest method for treating goldfish. Not all goldfish fair well with ich meds and they need to used for 2+weeks as well. The meds may also negatively affect any good bacteria you are trying to grow.

This is how to proceed from here. Keep the heat @74-75f. Water changes to bring your ammonia levels under .25ppm. Once they are controlled, mix approximately 2.5tsp per gallon of salt (or 65tsp for a 26g) into a container of conditioned water. Weight is more accurate for measuring salt if you have a kitchen scale- 11.4grams per gallon (or 296.4grams for 26g). Dissolve the salt completely in the treated water. Add this salt solution slowly over a 48hr period of time. Now, just do 50% water changes every other to every day (depending on ammonia and nitrite levels). When you do a 50% wc, you will only add back the salt you remove. So, 50%wc, add back 1/2 of the original dose (32.5tsp or 148.2g) of salt predissolved in treated water along with the new water you are adding to the tank. Maintain this for one week after the last spot is gone. Once treatment is done, just dont add back salt with future wcs and the salinity will gradually return to normal. Please ask if you have any questions!

 

[fledglingfish]

So do nothing for the ich until spots are gone? Oh & there were three dead ghost shrimp in the cycling tank (they died in my small tank, so I put them in the big tank), would that have been enough food for the bacteria ?

 

[jlk]

Maintain the salinity at .3% along with lots of water changes- this will treat the ich. It needs to be maintained for one week after the last spot is gone. Three ghost shrimp will have added insignificant (if any) levels of ammonia especially when compared to the bioload (ammonia production) of two goldfish.