Green Hair/Thread Algae

[Purrbox]

There's been a lot of discussion lately on what causes various algae to show up in a tank. I've been doing some searching but the only cause I've found for Hair and Thread Algae is high iron. If you accept the principals behind EI, then this can't be the real cause of these algaes. So anyone run across some documentation indicating the deficiency that would cause these?

 

[Lonewolfblue]

http://www.aquariaplants.com/alqaeproblems.htm

Thread/Hair Algae
Remember, this is my website and my views based on my circumstances. It's been my experience that if I have too much iron in my tank that this is the algae most likely to become a problem. Most Thread/Hair algaes grow extremely fast. You can manually remove handfuls every couple of days. While it's likely that excess iron by itself isn't a problem, if excess iron is combined with high levels of dissolved organics and/or other nutrient levels out of balance, then Hair/Thread algae is extremely likely. So, the approach to eliminating Hair/Thread algae is fairly straightforward too. Manually removed as much algae as possible. Do a 50-70% water change. Dose nitrate, phosphate, and traces to the needed amounts. Insure that CO2 is in the 15-30ppm range...consistently. Repeat the manual removal, water change, and redosing of nutrients on a weekly basis. Adding an algae eating crew will help eliminate and keep this algae in check. Personally I have great success with SAE's, Rosy Barbs, American-Flag Fish, Amano Shrimp, and Bristlenose Plecos.

I think he sums it up very well......

 

[JDogg]

i too have what i believe is hair algae... i keep cleaning and it keeps coming back.... i dose EI but am not (until my new plants arrive) as "highly planted" as i probably should be... (this is the problem with limiting myself to ONLY certain species of plants and not finding them readily available) it has to be the iron...

i have over 50 ppm Co2
Dose 30 ppm NO3, 30 ppm K and 2.5 ppm PO4

Ammonia and Nitrite are Zero and holding

i dose ~ 0.3 ppm Fe, But again since i am not highly planted, i logically have excess

guess it is experiment time...cut back on my Fe dosing...see if it effects the hair algae... (i will cut back to 1/3 of current dosing)

 

[Lonewolfblue]

I highly doubt it's the iron. I dose about .4ppm, and have a light plant load in my 10G, and no hair algae whatsoever. Also, no fish, so not a lot of dissolved organics, as I clean up any dead plant matter as well. Iron may help, but it has to have another factor involved. My CO2 levels are between 35ppm and 50ppm.

 

[Jchillin]

Funny...I had a bit of hair algae some time ago and was not dosing iron at the time. Since I started dosing EI, haven't seen it again.

 

[Purrbox]

I've read Steve Hampton's site before, but the only thing that he points specifically to is High Iron. If you accept EI then this isn't the actual cause but rather a resulting increase because of an imbalance causing something else to bottom out. High DOCs or a nutrient imbalance isn't very specific at all. In a tank where weekly 50% water changes are being performed for EI, then high DOCs are unlikely to be the problem. Which leaves an unspecified nutrient imbalance.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Funny...I had a bit of hair algae some time ago and was not dosing iron at the time. Since I started dosing EI, haven't seen it again.

As stated in my post above where I quoted the other site, iron may have some part in it, but I think it's probably some sort of relationship between iron and dissolved organics. If you have a fairly clean tank, and have high iron dosing, you should not get the hair algae. But if you have some un-noticed dissolved organics, or an abundance of it, then add the iron, then could this relationship possibly cause the hair algae?

I've read Steve Hampton's site before, but the only thing that he points specifically to is High Iron. If you accept EI then this isn't the actual cause but rather a resulting increase because of an imbalance causing something else to bottom out. High DOCs or a nutrient imbalance isn't very specific at all. In a tank where weekly 50% water changes are being performed for EI, then high DOCs are unlikely to be the problem. Which leaves an unspecified nutrient imbalance.

Even with 50% PWC's, you shouldn't have a large amount of dissolved organics, unless you have a bunch of dead plants on the substrate under the live plants. If you aren't thoroughly cleaning all that up, no matter how much water you change, you are going to have a lot of dissolved organics. And this, with maybe another nutrient imbalance, could be the cause of hair algae. There are so many factors that could be involved. Wish I was good enough to prove the exact cause, lol. But we know one thing, high iron isn't the cause. There are other factors involved. Now whether it's nutrient imbalances or dissolved organics combined with high iron, we know it's not iron alone.

 

[JDogg]

Here is a thought...

most (90-95%) of my hair algae is in HIGH flow areas... out the holes in my spray bars... on plant leaves directly in the flow from my powerheads.... perhaps the high flow is causing a deficiency in nutrients that tank a little longer to absorb... they get wash away too quick...just and idea/observation...

Thoughts?

EDIT:
or maybe the powerheads are collecting and concentrating waste/DO and then spewing them out....

 

[7Enigma]

Here is a thought...

most (90-95%) of my hair algae is in HIGH flow areas... out the holes in my spray bars... on plant leaves directly in the flow from my powerheads.... perhaps the high flow is causing a deficiency in nutrients that tank a little longer to absorb... they get wash away too quick...just and idea/observation...

Thoughts?

EDIT:
or maybe the powerheads are collecting and concentrating waste/DO and then spewing them out....

I doubt it. Most of these nutrients are passive or actively diffused through the membrane. These things happen at very rapid rates if there is not equilibrium (ie more potassium outside the cell, there is an influx into the cell). I don't think flow could play a role in this. CO2, however, most definitely could be a cause here as in high flow areas (I get most of mine near the surface) you have the potential to be gassing off a large amount of CO2 right in that area. Tank levels might be drastically different than this spot...

 

[JDogg]

I doubt it. Most of these nutrients are passive or actively diffused through the membrane. These things happen at very rapid rates if there is not equilibrium (ie more potassium outside the cell, there is an influx into the cell). I don't think flow could play a role in this. CO2, however, most definitely could be a cause here as in high flow areas (I get most of mine near the surface) you have the potential to be gassing off a large amount of CO2 right in that area. Tank levels might be drastically different than this spot...

my powerheads are low in the tank...so i do not see how they would be out gassing CO2

 

[7Enigma]

I doubt it. Most of these nutrients are passive or actively diffused through the membrane. These things happen at very rapid rates if there is not equilibrium (ie more potassium outside the cell, there is an influx into the cell). I don't think flow could play a role in this. CO2, however, most definitely could be a cause here as in high flow areas (I get most of mine near the surface) you have the potential to be gassing off a large amount of CO2 right in that area. Tank levels might be drastically different than this spot...

my powerheads are low in the tank...so i do not see how they would be out gassing CO2

In your case they can't. I was under the impression these might be near the surface and if you have good current right at the surface you can have CO2 deficiency in that area. If your outputs are near the substrate level CO2 is not a problem.

Maybe not concentrating the waste, but making every nutrient that the algae requires be in ample supply. IE, even though you have trace levels of what the algae requires because its in a high flow area it always has contact with these small levels...that would fit the symptoms.

 

[JDogg]

I doubt it. Most of these nutrients are passive or actively diffused through the membrane. These things happen at very rapid rates if there is not equilibrium (ie more potassium outside the cell, there is an influx into the cell). I don't think flow could play a role in this. CO2, however, most definitely could be a cause here as in high flow areas (I get most of mine near the surface) you have the potential to be gassing off a large amount of CO2 right in that area. Tank levels might be drastically different than this spot...

my powerheads are low in the tank...so i do not see how they would be out gassing CO2

In your case they can't. I was under the impression these might be near the surface and if you have good current right at the surface you can have CO2 deficiency in that area. If your outputs are near the substrate level CO2 is not a problem.

Maybe not concentrating the waste, but making every nutrient that the algae requires be in ample supply. IE, even though you have trace levels of what the algae requires because its in a high flow area it always has contact with these small levels...that would fit the symptoms.

so any ideas on how to fight it? others are dosing EI, CO2 and have powerheads...what am i doing wrong?

 

[7Enigma]

I have no idea.

 

[JDogg]

I have no idea.

humm....

well i am so sick of the hair algae i am ready to tearthe tank down and drain it :?

 

[7Enigma]

You could look into trying a hydrogen peroxide full tank treatment. That might do it.

 

[JDogg]

You could look into trying a hydrogen peroxide full tank treatment. That might do it.

guess your forgot what happened last time i tried peroxide... BBA... kill 1/2 my fish and plants and Bacteria...had to re-cycle my tank :?

i know you swear it was not the peroxide...but "once burnt. twice shy" as they say... 8O