How would I know if a filter is cycled or not?

[Jacky12]

I bought a used 75 G that came with a Aqueon 155/400 canister filter. The seller got in and out of SW quickly. He said he “Thoroughly cleaned the filter to make it FW safe.” It’s < a year old. It was used up until a few days before I picked it up. It’s running on the 75 G. I am going to move some fancy goldfish from the 125 g goldfish tank, but I need to know there’s lots of BB in the filter. I’m thinking of adding a few cycled HOBs to this tank before moving the goldfish. How would I know the canister is fully cycled before removing the HOBs?

 

[Aiken Drum]

The only way to know if the canister is cycled is to dose some ammonia or add some fish and test the water. If you dose 2ppm ammonia and 24 hours later see zero ammonia and nitrite you are cycled sufficiently to stock a tank. If you add fish and regular testing shows zero ammonia and nitrite you are sufficiently for the fish in the tank.

There is no such thing as fully cycled. All you can be is cycled sufficiently to consume the ammonia your tank produces. Add more fish, your cycle needs to catch up. In a similar way, if you run those 2 HOBs alongside your canister, and then remove those HOBs your cycle will need to catch up as you will be removing bacteria and reducing your filtrationd ability to consume ammonia.

 

[Jacky12]

Thanks, Aiken. I have Dr. Tim’s Ammonia around & may test with that. No sacrificial fish here.

What if the ammonia level remains high? The fishless cycling drill? I did that once. Not fun. What about substituting known cycled media from the HOBs with some media in the canister?

 

[Andy Sager]

Thanks, Aiken. I have Dr. Tim’s Ammonia around & may test with that. No sacrificial fish here.

What if the ammonia level remains high? The fishless cycling drill? I did that once. Not fun. What about substituting known cycled media from the HOBs with some media in the canister?

In another group I belong to, there is a discussion going on regarding using the term " cycle" vs "established". Different people believe different things so let's start with understanding exactly what " Cycled" actually means. ( Please bear with me if you already know this.) Your tank goes through a process where nitrifying bacteria are establishing themselves creating a bacteria bed. There are 2 types of natural bacteria that are part of this process. One converts ammonia into nitrites and the other converts nitrites to nitrates. The process is known as " the cycle" because your ammonia and nitrite levels go from 0 to a higher number then back to 0. So they "cycle" back to 0. Once both these levels have returned to 0, the bacteria bed is " Established" and the tank is considered " Cycled". What that means is that there is enough nitrifying bacteria present to convert the level of ammonia present at that time. So if we didn't use the Cycled or Established terms, it would be explained : when there is ammonia present for more than a few hours, it means there is not enough nitrifying bacteria present to convert it to nitrites. If there are nitrites in your system for more than a couple hours, it means there is not enough nitrifying bacteria present to convert it into nitrates. If both ammonia and nitrites are converted to 0 within a couple of hours, it means there are enough nitrifying bacteria present in the system and the tank is considered " established " or " cycled". It should also be noted that the bacteria bed is a living breathing organism so it grows and shrinks to the amount of food ( ammonia) that is present. The nitrification process is rather quick so it is possible in a system for the ammonia and nitrite levels to rise and fall without the aquarist ever noticing it. This usually happens when you feed the fish in your tank or add new fish. The nitrifying bacteria bed can double in size every 20-24 hours so using some filter material from an established system can be considered an inoculation where the bacteria will begin to reproduce within 20-24 hours. There is no such thing as a "cycled" filter or machine. In reality, there is only a cycled/ established SYSTEM or an uncycled / unestablished SYSTEM. If you are using a filter, it's a part of the system and not an entity unto itself. Nitrifying bacteria exist in higher oxygenated areas of the "system" so they are typically found in filters but are not limited to filters. ANYWHERE within the system where there is good oxygenation will hold nitrifying bacteria. This includes gravel, rocks, decorations in high flow areas, etc. ( This is the short explanation. )

So with that all said, to answer your question: "What if the ammonia level remains high? " It means that there are not enough nitrifying bacteria present within your system to reduce/ consume it so that means you need to either create some by 1) Adding filtering material from an established/cycled tank. 2) add one of the "starter" products like Dr Tims or fritzyme, etc. 3) let them form naturally by keeping an ammonia level present and testing your water until you see the level go down. Your other option is to consistently do water changes to keep the level to a near 0 level until the bacteria bed forms naturally. ( BTW, this last method takes what feels like forever to happen. ) So if you have a high ammonia level that does not go down rapidly, and you have some material from a running filter in another system, I'd add that and continue testing the ammonia and when it starts to reduce, start testing your nitrite level. Once you see the nitrite level go back down to 0, you can start adding fish/ life to the system but be mindful that adding too much at one time will result in an ammonia rise that out performs the bacteria bed so it puts your livestock in jeopardy.

Hope that over answers your question.

 

[Jacky12]

Thanks. I knew 34.568% of that. What about my idea of taking BB rich media from other filters and adding it to the 155/400 canister? I have two freed up now. I moved the pink Oscar from the 56 g to a 125 g. I have a FX4 under the 125. My other 125 came with 2 FX4s each of which can handle 250 g. The 56 had an AC70 & a Tidal 70. I’ll be monitoring the basic params daily. I can easily do big water changes.

 

[Andy Sager]

Thanks. I knew 34.568% of that. What about my idea of taking BB rich media from other filters and adding it to the 155/400 canister? I have two freed up now. I moved the pink Oscar from the 56 g to a 125 g. I have a FX4 under the 125. My other 125 came with 2 FX4s each of which can handle 250 g. The 56 had an AC70 & a Tidal 70. I’ll be monitoring the basic params daily. I can easily do big water changes.

Then I'm glad I elaborated
As for moving established material, that's fine if there are fish in the tank it's going to. Just remember, you won't know how much bacteria you are moving until you see how the ammonia level goes.

 

[Jacky12]

Yep, you elaborated and you did it well. Thank you. Right now, I have only Pink the old Oscar in the 125, but will likely add a pair of peaceful severums today. They are big fish but should continue to grow. After all my investigation into compatible tank mates for Oscars, I decided to keep it simple & move fish I already have. Pulling these 2 bigger severums will leave 6 smaller sevs in the 125 & I think that’s a good number.

I continue to ponder when to add the fantail goldfish to the 75 on the platform below the 125. I’m inclined to taking BB rich media from the HOBs on back of the 56 the pink Oscar was moved from yesterday & stash some in the canister that came with the 75.

I am so grateful for mjGomez’s suggestion to use a fishing net. Pink was an easy catch.

 

[Andy Sager]

Yep, you elaborated and you did it well. Thank you. Right now, I have only Pink the old Oscar in the 125, but will likely add a pair of peaceful severums today. They are big fish but should continue to grow. After all my investigation into compatible tank mates for Oscars, I decided to keep it simple & move fish I already have. Pulling these 2 bigger severums will leave 6 smaller sevs in the 125 & I think that’s a good number.

I continue to ponder when to add the fantail goldfish to the 75 on the platform below the 125. I’m inclined to taking BB rich media from the HOBs on back of the 56 the pink Oscar was moved from yesterday & stash some in the canister that came with the 75.

I am so grateful for mjGomez’s suggestion to use a fishing net. Pink was an easy catch.

Yeah, the proper net makes catching fish so much less stressful on all involved.

 

[Jacky12]

Absolutely! It was painful to watch the previous owner of if my first Oscar, the 4 yr old Tiger, go after the poor fish with a small net. Situation made worse by all the trashy decor crowding the tank a good 50%. Ruins of Ancient Greek temples next to huge flying saucers next to submarines and ugly plant flowers.

I brought the big fishing net with me when I picked up the second Oscar & whipped it out as soon as the guy reached for his sardine net. He was ever so impressed!

 

[Andy Sager]

Absolutely! It was painful to watch the previous owner of if my first Oscar, the 4 yr old Tiger, go after the poor fish with a small net. Situation made worse by all the trashy decor crowding the tank a good 50%. Ruins of Ancient Greek temples next to huge flying saucers next to submarines and ugly plant flowers.

I brought the big fishing net with me when I picked up the second Oscar & whipped it out as soon as the guy reached for his sardine net. He was ever so impressed!

It's not always about the big fish and big nets. To watch someone use a 12" net to catch neon Tetras is as bad as using a 4" net to catch a 6" fish. Even for small fish, I use 2 nets. One for netting while the other is for guiding the fish into the catch net. You do less damage to the other fish in the tank and you can better catch a particular fish this way.

 

[Jacky12]

Agree. I’ve tried the two net method but lack the required skill & experience. At times, I’ve done well with a plastic quart measuring cup & scoop the fish out, after dropping the water level.

 

[Colin_T]

2 nets is the only way to go. I used a couple of 5-6 inch nets in the shop for small fishes, and 10-12 inch nets for bigger species. Set one net up against the front glass and have it resting on the substrate. use the second smaller net to guide the fish into the bigger net.

With a bit of practice you can catch out 1 individual neon tetra out of tank with 1000 in. That used to freak people out

 

[Jacky12]

Colin, thanks for the details re setting up a net against the glass & on the substrate. I was using the 2 nets more as salad tongs & it didn’t go well.

 

[Jacky12]

So turns out by “thoroughly cleaning the canister filter to make it freshwater safe,” the previous owner meant he tossed all the media and replaced it with brand new stuff: foam, bagged carbon, bio ceramic rings, & bio balls. I had the same media in the two HOB AQ 70 and Seachem Tidal 70 that were on the pink Oscar’s temporary 56 g home. I had to cut the foam to fit with scissors and a bread knife, but it was pretty easy. I replaced all the new media with BB teaming stuff.

I am beginning to think the seller had his beautiful 75 G SW tank set up and maintained by the SW LFS. The shop is owned by an older couple, but they have people go to businesses and apparently the homes of rich guys. He never told me this, but there were so many glaring gaps in his basic fish keeping skills it has to be.

 

[Colin_T]

You don't need to replace the filter media when swapping a filter from salt to fresh or vice versa. Just wash it under tap water and away you go.

Having said that, I would replace filter media if the filter was on a fresh water tank. I would also bleach the filter case and everything inside to kill any possible bacteria that might be lurking there.

 

[Jacky12]

Too late for that! The seller decided to replace all the media. I actually thought he was going to wash it, but obviously everything’s brand new. I saw no alternative other than replacing the brand new stuff with the media from my two HOBs. The 155/400 filter case appears spotless & too late for bleaching now. Thought never occurred to me. It’s up and running now on the 75 G. I moved the two small Ryunkins from the 125 goldfish tank this morning. Not sure when I’ll move the 3 or 4 larger fantails. The SW LFS owner who sells goldfish says to add new fish slowly. What do you think?

I had a miserable time transferring two sevs to the 125 that has only the old pink Oscar. The tank is six feet long with three lid support bars on top. I removed all the fake ficus vines and that helped some. I couldn’t figure out how to double net big fish in a 6’ long tank. Finally I decided to barricade them off with an adjustable screen. Should have done to begin with! Still an unpleasant task.

I meant to move a pair that’s been spawning & came to me together from a previous owner. These are the ones that lay eggs on the rear tank wall & gobble them down within 24 hours. The female was easy to ID, as she’s the only orange one. I’m worried now I may have grabbed another sev rather than her mate. There were 2 Green Sevs close in size.
The male has a very minor defect in the dorsal fin & I should be able to ID him soon.

If it’s the wrong fish, I think I’ll leave things as is. There are a total of 6 sevs left in that 125 and maybe he’ll be happier anyway replacing the larger orange female with a pretty younger petite thing or two.

 

[Andy Sager]

2 nets is the only way to go. I used a couple of 5-6 inch nets in the shop for small fishes, and 10-12 inch nets for bigger species. Set one net up against the front glass and have it resting on the substrate. use the second smaller net to guide the fish into the bigger net.

With a bit of practice you can catch out 1 individual neon tetra out of tank with 1000 in. That used to freak people out

Yeah, I loved doing that in a feeder guppy tank and impressing people. LOL
However, that started a trend where we eventually had to put up a sign " No picking!!!"

I'm also the designated Netter on fishing trips. LOL

 

[Jacky12]

Very impressive! I sure could have used a designated Netter with these sevs. But they are doing fine now with the old pink Oscar.