LFS Advice - Aquarium Salt and PH Adjustment

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realdeal

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
49
Location
New York
I have a 36 gallon FW tank with a couple of guppies, a Pleco and some tetras. I wanted to by two Mollies and two Platys as I would like to get some fry born as I think my son would be amazed by it.

In any event, the gentleman at my LFS told me that with the Mollies and Platys, I would have to add Aquarium Salt and would have to get my PH up to 7.2. It is currently at about 6.4. (My water comes out of the tap at about 6.6 but I have a big piece of driftwood and I think that may cause the PH drop).

In any event, I think I am an idiot. I listened to this guy, came home and added 3 tablespoons of the Aquarium Salt and 2 scoops of Proper PH 7.5.

I've now just read a few posts on here that seem to indicate that Aquarium Salt is NOT needed and that there's no reason to adjust the PH as long as it is stable.

I should note that I have had at least 4 pairs of Guppies previously that have died for no apparent reason (Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate levels are good). Additionally, I have had a pair of Swordtails in the tank for about 4 months and the female still has not been pregnant.

So tell me friends, did I screw up royally?
 
You're right about them not needing salt. The salt you put in your tank won't hurt, it will become more deluted with each water change.

The PH should be OK although closer to neutral would be better. Probably not worth the potential risks to your fish to adjust the PH.

Fish from pet stores and LFS are usually not as healthy and robust as ones from hobbiests. If possible get the mollies and platys from another hobbiest.

Livebearers do better with 2 females to each male, it gives the females a break from constant attention from the male. They enjoy protein but require vegetation in their diet. They are prone to constipation when they don't get enough vegetation. The fish will do much better with plant in the tank. Naja grass makes a good hiding spot for fry.
 
For most FW fish salt is unnecessary. It is a good medication to treat Ich when necessary. With water changes it will slowly be removed as long as you are no longer adding any salt.

With the pH you are correct that it is better to leave it alone when it's stable in most situations. Again regular water changes will slowly return it the natural level of your source water. The sudden change in KH/pH as a result of the pH adjuster may have contributed to the death of the fish. It's always best to adjust these values slowly if necessary.
 
The sudden change in KH/pH as a result of the pH adjuster may have contributed to the death of the fish. It's always best to adjust these values slowly if necessary.

I just yesterday put one scoop of the adjuster. The Guppies I mentioned in my post, died prior to this.
 
Plecos definitely don't do well with salt, just like most catfish.

Stable pH is generally more important than the natural precise pH. Bumping it up and down causes more problems for the fish.
 
As far as the salt, if the fish you buy from the LFS have salt in the tank you may be best to have salt in your tank, then with WC's the salt will be reduced over time and no longer needed
 
In terms of what pH they prefer, while it's true that a stable pH is usually the key, if the fish you want in your tank do better with a slightly higher pH and will breed more (which is what you want) you might think about adding a very small amount of crushed coral in a mesh bag (or piece of clean stocking) to your filter, this should help raise and stabilize the pH and probably keep it more stable than by adding a buffer with every water change. I'm no expert though, and i've been dealing with pH issues myself (turned out the pH was 5 in one of my tanks....eeek!) so this is just based on my recent experiences and information i've gathered. Someone else may want to weigh in, and by all means, if I am wrong, feel free to correct me.

Good luck!
 
I wouldn't even worry with the salt. Mollies are actually brackish fish in the wild and require Marine salt (if wild specimen), not Freshwater Aquarium salt. Mollies have been breeding in straight FW aquariums for so many generations that they do not need the marine salt.

Regarding the pH, I wouldn't mess with it. The LFS tends to use it as an excuse not to guarentee fish in the event of deaths. Your pH is not going to harm them.

The Tetra deaths could be any number of things. They could have just been weak fish or possibly a disease. They wouldn't have died from your pH or from lack of salt.
 
1. Never, ever use liquid chemicals to try to adjust pH. It is a guaranteed disaster sooner or later, it will result in wild pH swings in your tank which will go much farther towards killing your fish than a "less than ideal" pH ever will. One of my first tests of any new fish store I go to is I ask about pH (basically play dumb) and see if the employees recommend those chemicals; if they do, I write off that place as a bunch of clueless idiots and never shop there again.

If you have SPECIFIC reasons that you want a pH significantly higher or lower than what your tap water naturally provides, you have two real options to do it safely. The best option is to choose a substrate for the bottom of your tank with buffering capacity for the pH range you want. For acidic pH ranges, ADA AquaSoil is the only product I have heard good reports about. For the alkaline range, there are actually quite a few options depending how alkaline you want; Eco-Complete (which is GREAT for planted tanks, btw) seems to buffer somewhere in the mid-7's, I believe Seachem's Onyx Sand (or Onyx Gravel) is about the same. Then for higher pH's than that you have your various cichlid gravels, aragonite/crushed coral, etc.

2. The other option, if you have a HoB or canister filter, is to add something to your filter to buffer. This is not as effective as replacing your entire substrate, but it can work if you aren't needing to modify the pH too much. For acidic, some sort of peat insert would be needed; for alkaline, crushed coral is probably your best bet.

3. As for salt, it is true that mollies (for sure) and platys & guppies (to a much letter degree) prefer conditions that are more brackish. If you wanted to go the salt route, you would need to be adding marine salt (which contains an amazing variety of salts & minerals), that the pathetic excuse-for-a-product that is often sold in stores called "aquarium salt," which is essentially sodium chloride (table salt). If your tank was an all-livebearer tank, I would actually suggest that you *slowly* work some salt in. However, tetras aren't big fans of salt and plecs even less. You might go with a bit of a compromise; first no salt at all for several water changes until you remove most of the garbage salt out of the tank. Then, if you want to create ever-so-slight brackish conditions, use marine salt at a ratio of 1 teaspoon (not tablespoon!) per 10 gallons. Don't add the salt directly to your tank! Instead, every time you do a water change, add an appropriate amount of salt ONLY FOR THE AMOUNT OF WATER YOU ARE TAKING OUT. So, if you siphon out a 5 gallon bucket worth of old water, then when you put your new water in, put half a teaspoon of marine salt into that new water, dissolve it first, then put the water into your tank. Never dump salt crystals directly into your tank as some fish will mistake the crystals for food and eat one...and that would likely be the end of that fish, their digestive systems can't handle that amount of salt at once.

4. As for breeding, you have 3 of the most prolific breeding species in the aquarium hobby (guppies, platys, and mollies), so it really shouldn't be an issue. However, fish won't breed if they aren't happy. So you need to:
  • Get your tank pH (and other parameters) stable. Anything between 6.5 and 8.0 should be fine for live bearers.
  • Keep those parameters stable.
  • Don't overcrowd your tank.
  • Provide plenty of cover (most fish feel much more comfortable when there is adequate places to hide). Plenty of live/plastic plants, including some floating plants, little caves, crevices, whatever.
  • Keep them well-fed, with as great a variety in diet as possible. If you currently use a standard flake food, considering buying an all-plant-matter flake food (spirulina flakes), and an all-protein food (brine shrimp flakes), and rotate among them. More variety = healthier fish. You can also supplement with small amounts of blanched (boiled/microwaved & cooled) spinach, zucchini, etc.
  • If at all possible, try to include some live food, as this REALLY encourages egg production in female livebearers. If you can't do live, they at least try frozen. Frozen bloodworms are readily available in most pet stores, fish love them, they are very good nutrition, and easy to work with. Break off a little chunk of the frozen worms, put them in a small dish and add a small scoop of aquarium water, give them a few minutes to thaw (even fish don't want to eat something ice cold!), and then dump them in your tank and watch the feeding frenzy. Note that this should be a supplement to your regular feeding; giving some bloodworms maybe once every other day or once every third day is enough for the desired effect.
  • As someone else pointed out, with livebearers it is much better if you can keep them at a ratio of 1 male:2 females (or even 1:3). It is less stressful on the girls as there are more of them so the male's attention is spread amongst them.
Good luck to you! Please keep us posted with the results.
 
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Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.

Would live Brine Shrimp be a good choice?
 
Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.

Would live Brine Shrimp be a good choice?

Baby brine shrimp are great (even for fry) and a good nutrition source. Adult brine shrimp are actually not that great a nutrition source, but they are a wonderful "snack" that every tropical fish I have ever had loves to much on. They are reasonably fast swimmers and so tend to get the fish all excited (puts your fish into "hunter" mode haha) and, like any live food, yes will help encourage your fish to breed.
 
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