Liquid co2

[abrahamavelar]

As I was reading about co2 online I came across some bottle of some sort of liquid co2 replacement thingy do those thungs work

 

[o.jonathan.o]

What's the brand and actual name of it

 

[aqua_chem]

Flourish excel. Its actually glutaraldehyde, which is incorporated into the Calvin cycle instead of CO2. Its not as effective as co2, but has significant impact none the less.


Its also an algaecide.

 

[Rozdab]

Aqua Chem

Sorry to sabotage ur thread Abraham!!!

Do u need to use flourish and flourish excel and if need be use the Seachem iron supplement and other one seachem has if needed. but basically use the first two all the time or just flourish?

Also do u recommend the tabs in conjuction with the liquid flourish or either or?

I guess it would depend on if u have plants in substrate and or floating?

 

[epiphysis]

Don't have first hand experience with Excel but what I've read is that its 60-70% effective as to gas CO2. Also not to be used with Vallisneria. Half my tank is planted with vallis so I'll stay away.

 

[o.jonathan.o]

Don't have first hand experience with Excel but what I've read is that its 60-70% effective as to gas CO2. Also not to be used with Vallisneria. Half my tank is planted with vallis so I'll stay away.

Also hornwort!!!

 

[Rozdab]

Really I was under the impression this stuff was awesome espically for small 10 gallon tank with maybe trying to get away with co2. I'm sure highly unlikely tho lol.

So thank u guys for letting me kno certain plants actually are actually Hurt by this product?

 

[abrahamavelar]

Aqua Chem

Sorry to sabotage ur thread Abraham!!!

Do u need to use flourish and flourish excel and if need be use the Seachem iron supplement and other one seachem has if needed. but basically use the first two all the time or just flourish?

Also do u recommend the tabs in conjuction with the liquid flourish or either or?

I guess it would depend on if u have plants in substrate and or floating?

no.problem im new to this and its a goos question

 

[o.jonathan.o]

Really I was under the impression this stuff was awesome espically for small 10 gallon tank with maybe trying to get away with co2. I'm sure highly unlikely tho lol.

So thank u guys for letting me kno certain plants actually are actually Hurt by this product?

Yes there is more so make sure ypu do research before buying it

 

[fishdud]

Even anacharis melts ,I have vals, hornworts and anacharis in my 36 g and I dose excel and they're doing fine. Just do small doses and up it up a lil each day so the plants can get used to it.

 

[donh]

Excel Dosing

Vals are the only thing I've heard just will not survive with Excel. As fishdud, suggested, just take your time and ease into it.

Keep in mind, though, Excel does not take the place of CO2. In fact, you can still dose it while using CO2. Excel provides another source of carbon to the water column. It is a supplement. I've been dosing it for a while with store bought plants and wild collected plants and they are doing great!

Seachem has a dosing chart you can use to set up a fert dosing schedule. Plants definitely need NPK. Iron is important too. However, your tap may have some iron and the Flourish Comprehensive will supply some. Study up on the different fertilizers offered, what impact they have and what deficiencies of each look like. It's important to know these things so you can make adjustments if needed.

Root tabs help some plants as well. Some plants are root feeders. They still take in nutrients from the water column but thrive with nutrients provided to the roots.

Ferts are fantastic. There are million ways to provide them. But you need to understand the basics first. There are a lot of folks here to help you. There are also other forums dedicated to aquarium plants.

 

[aqua_chem]

Aqua Chem

Sorry to sabotage ur thread Abraham!!!

Do u need to use flourish and flourish excel and if need be use the Seachem iron supplement and other one seachem has if needed. but basically use the first two all the time or just flourish?

Also do u recommend the tabs in conjuction with the liquid flourish or either or?

I guess it would depend on if u have plants in substrate and or floating?

'Need' is all relative, mostly to personal demands and lighting. More lighting equals more demand for bioavailable carbon (CO2 and excel) and ferts (Flourish and tabs, etc). In my high light, high tech tank, I use literally everything: Seachem root tabs, excel, pressurized CO2, dry ferts, and Fe/Mg liquid supplement (brings out the reds ). On my low tech tank, all I use is excel and root tabs placed under crypts. If I had a bit less light I could not use excel if I so chose. It all depends on your lights and personal expectations. Remember that bioavailable carbon, fertilizers, and light form are all interconnected, and that too much of either ferts or light will lead you to algae, whereas too much carbon leads you to gasing your fish.

I would recommend root tabs, yes, but only for major root feeders. Most plants will benefit some from them, but your root feeders (crypts, sword, more) will benefit the most. Even some plants that are growing in the substrate don't care about tabs. I have wisteria growing in inert gravel w/o tabs it it's going berserk right now...

I have heard that excel is actually 30-40% as effective as CO2, which, trust me, is plenty. Bear in mind that any of those numbers are purely invented and not the results of data, only observation.

As far as what excel affects, I've heard of it affecting mosses, vals, riccia, hornwort, elodea/anacharis, and various others. I've also heard of people keeping it with mosses, vals, hornwort, and (now) anacharis. There's obviously something else going on here that we don't yet understand. My bet would be that those plants can become resistant to it if allowed to adapt to it slowly. I would say that it's a risk though.

I mostly like excel for its algaecidal properties. Nuked down diatoms and hair algae in my 10g when I started using it. I highly recommend it for 10g, or any tank really.

 

[Rozdab]

Sorry my reply there was a typo so might not have made sense I meant using flourish or a combo of that with flourish excel too and getting away with Not having to use co2.

But I'm gonna go both routes after reading your posts (flourish and co2)

I did use flourish already but I put half of what directions said for my size tank.
The only thing that is in there is a free clump of java moss everything else is plastic in my 29 gallon.

I have 29 up and going but this research and the many silly questions I have are gonna be for the 10 gallon with all real plants where I'm gonna focus more on the plants and just house one small school of fish.

But since I have the java moss in the 29 I need to know a little bit about this stuff. Lol

 

[aqua_chem]

I have some java moss in a plastic critter keeper that I was using to house some shrimp when I used a Cu containing med in their tank. Shrimp are out of it now, but I left it set up out of pure laziness, with no light, ferts, or water changes. It's sitting under a shelf right now with a nice gross film on it. It might be getting some light from my HC emersed setup near it, but it's for all intensive purposes dark. **** stuff is still green and growing in those conditions. I wouldn't fert and excel/CO2 a tank just for java moss. I'm thinking of starting a chain of experiments where I can see if/how fast I can kill the stuff, actually.


I have heard that excel can damage mosses though, so if the only thing you have is java moss and no algae problem, I would stay away from excel if you avoid it.

 

[Rozdab]

Lol Nice

Yea the java moss is in the 29 gallon and everything else in there plant wise is plastic. First tank that wifey and I ever did. I'm so mad about the stupid blue gravel. Such a bad rookie mistake. I thought I was gonna love it now I want black black black so my fish's colors pop oh well I have a light fixture coming for this tank today. Once it does I will make sure to do a review of it and put some pix of the tank up too. The ones in my gallery are old ones from when the tank was only 2-3 months.

But I digress, the Moss was free and I fig'd I wasn't gonna let it go to waste cause the ten gallon tank that was also free lol will be the one that is all real plants.

So I will just let the java moss be for now and see how it acclimates since it's been like 5 days to a week since I put it in there and not do anymore doses of anything unless I have a bloom or other issue with it. But sounds like I will create algae if I use the product?

Most of my questions especially about live plants have to do with the 10 gallon tank that is gonna have all live plants but I'm doing massive amounts of research before anything is bought for it or even put near that tank.

It just seemed like a good idea at the time to get something for the moss to make it hopefully grow a little quicker and jic something went wrong. So I went with the Seachem flourish thank God I bought the small bottle lol.

Also I fig'd I would have it for when the ten gallon is up and running.

But for how much you need to use and also how it seems to make matters worse for some and help other plants at least from what other people's opinions are of the stuff, I'm sure I can get away with doing DIY co2, ferts, and fixture/light(s) and can stay away from commercial products and work up what works for what I pick out and also what seems to work for me too.

Thanks for the help everybody

 

[Rozdab]

Vals are the only thing I've heard just will not survive with Excel. As fishdud, suggested, just take your time and ease into it.

Keep in mind, though, Excel does not take the place of CO2. In fact, you can still dose it while using CO2. Excel provides another source of carbon to the water column. It is a supplement. I've been dosing it for a while with store bought plants and wild collected plants and they are doing great!

Seachem has a dosing chart you can use to set up a fert dosing schedule. Plants definitely need NPK. Iron is important too. However, your tap may have some iron and the Flourish Comprehensive will supply some. Study up on the different fertilizers offered, what impact they have and what deficiencies of each look like. It's important to know these things so you can make adjustments if needed.

Root tabs help some plants as well. Some plants are root feeders. They still take in nutrients from the water column but thrive with nutrients provided to the roots.

Ferts are fantastic. There are million ways to provide them. But you need to understand the basics first. There are a lot of folks here to help you. There are also other forums dedicated to aquarium plants.

Thank you Don this is some great info on seachems products and it's really quick and precise so thanks again.

 

[hippy guy]

I love flourish exel, I use it at night, and diy on as well, my plants love it

 

[daneek155]

wouldnt u need to add excel at daytime because at night they require oxygen and at day they require co2... AM i right??still a noob at co2

 

[Fishnova]

Doesn't matter, once you dose excel, it will be available to your specimens for the next 24 hours.

 

[aqua_chem]

Glutaraldehyde, the active ingredient of Excel, API Plantzone, Cidex, etc, has a half life of 12 hours. That means that 24 hours after you dose it, there is 25% left in the tank.

What does that mean for time? If you dose at night after the photocycle, the Excel levels will decrese throughout the night and morning, such that there will be <50% of the recommended level by the time the lights come on, probably closer to 35%. If you had dosed in the morning, BEFORE the photocycle, you glutaraldehyde levels will be between 100% and ~70% of the recommended dose during the duration of the cycle. All numbers are approximate.


Also, nice necropost.