Looking for advice - again

[gimmethatfish]

So I had a bad start of things with my 54 gallon tank. I used the wrong kind of silicone to glue my 3D background in - I managed to somehow grab one single tube of kitchen & bath silicone in the mix of door/window tubes, and the anti mildew gunk poisoned my fish. They were acting weird and then died overnight and it was only then that I realized what I had done. I did only have 3 glofish in the tank at that point so at least it wasn't fully stocked, but it was not my finest moment in life. Those poor little guys . I literally almost just scrapped it and gave the tank away I felt so bad.

I still have the tank running because I have a bunch of live plants, but I obviously have no fish in there. I don't know at this point if I need to scrap the plants that are in there or not. I'm going to pull out the background and put in a new one (using the right silicone...). I already ordered a new filter (the old one was secondhand and loud, and I don't trust what the media may have absorbed). I have several new plants to put in as well. I'll remove and thoroughly rinse the gravel. All in all, it's going to take me probably 2 weeks to dismantle the tank, make the new background and allow it to dry/cure, stick it back in, and then I'm going to do a fishless cycle. I have an empty 10G tank I can house the plants in for now. They will be a tight squeeze, but I'll be diligent in rotating and fertilizing them.

I guess my questions are:

• Would you keep the plants or scrap them? I don't know how much toxins they may have absorbed. Do you think they will purge themselves with 2 weeks and frequent water changes?
• Would you keep the gravel or scrap it? I have 30 lbs of Caribsea peace river gravel on top of 20 lbs of Caribsea eco-complete. It *should* just rinse clean I would think. I hate to wash away all the established bacteria, but probably better safe than sorry.
• I have heard very conflicting advice about whether to fishless cycle with plants or without. What does everyone advise?
• I also have no concept of what makes a tank lightly vs heavily planted. I lean toward mine being medium planted? Right now, I have 2 large and 1 small java fern, 1 amazon sword, several bunches of moneywort, several bunches of hornwort, 2 sizeable jungle val, 1 small and 1 large anubias, and I also have a plant trimmings package on the way (ordered before fishpocalypse '14) which will contain a large mix of duckweed, frogbit, rotala, java moss, crypt, pennywort, anacharis. I could take pictures of everything and post.

My tank is a 54 gallon corner bowfront, so it doesn't have as much "floor space" as a rectangular tank, but I plan on building a ledge or two into the new rock background so I can put some of the shorter plants up higher. I'm currently using Seachem flourish and excel, but I have just ordered a kit of the Green Leaf Aquarium fertilizers. I have a powercompact fluorescent light fixture.

 

[Berylla]

So I had a bad start of things with my 54 gallon tank. I used the wrong kind of silicone to glue my 3D background in - I managed to somehow grab one single tube of kitchen & bath silicone in the mix of door/window tubes, and the anti mildew gunk poisoned my fish. They were acting weird and then died overnight and it was only then that I realized what I had done. I did only have 3 glofish in the tank at that point so at least it wasn't fully stocked, but it was not my finest moment in life. Those poor little guys . I literally almost just scrapped it and gave the tank away I felt so bad.

I still have the tank running because I have a bunch of live plants, but I obviously have no fish in there. I don't know at this point if I need to scrap the plants that are in there or not. I'm going to pull out the background and put in a new one (using the right silicone...). I already ordered a new filter (the old one was secondhand and loud, and I don't trust what the media may have absorbed). I have several new plants to put in as well. I'll remove and thoroughly rinse the gravel. All in all, it's going to take me probably 2 weeks to dismantle the tank, make the new background and allow it to dry/cure, stick it back in, and then I'm going to do a fishless cycle. I have an empty 10G tank I can house the plants in for now. They will be a tight squeeze, but I'll be diligent in rotating and fertilizing them.

I guess my questions are:

• Would you keep the plants or scrap them? I don't know how much toxins they may have absorbed. Do you think they will purge themselves with 2 weeks and frequent water changes?
• Would you keep the gravel or scrap it? I have 30 lbs of Caribsea peace river gravel on top of 20 lbs of Caribsea eco-complete. It *should* just rinse clean I would think. I hate to wash away all the established bacteria, but probably better safe than sorry.
• I have heard very conflicting advice about whether to fishless cycle with plants or without. What does everyone advise?
• I also have no concept of what makes a tank lightly vs heavily planted. I lean toward mine being medium planted? Right now, I have 2 large and 1 small java fern, 1 amazon sword, several bunches of moneywort, several bunches of hornwort, 2 sizeable jungle val, 1 small and 1 large anubias, and I also have a plant trimmings package on the way (ordered before fishpocalypse '14) which will contain a large mix of duckweed, frogbit, rotala, java moss, crypt, pennywort, anacharis. I could take pictures of everything and post.

My tank is a 54 gallon corner bowfront, so it doesn't have as much "floor space" as a rectangular tank, but I plan on building a ledge or two into the new rock background so I can put some of the shorter plants up higher. I'm currently using Seachem flourish and excel, but I have just ordered a kit of the Green Leaf Aquarium fertilizers. I have a powercompact fluorescent light fixture.

Sorry you've had such a bad first experience. Live and learn, like they say. I think it's worth the risk no throwing out all your plants and substrate because of the poisons. It's a lot of work and costly.

First, remove the silicon and if you can't remove all of it from the background, you need to buy a new one. Remove all from the tank.

Do a few 100% water changes over a couple of days. Start running some charcoal in your filters. This will absorb the toxins in the tank. In a week, check your water parameters, and if everything checks out, buy some tetras. They are very sensitive and will react very quickly to anything wrong in the tank. If they are well after a week, you can slowly start buying more. Keep us updated.

 

[gimmethatfish]

I bought enough scrapers to scrape the entire world, so hopefully I can get all the silicone off easily. I realllly glued that thing in there good...

I have some Purigen and some charcoal - would you do both together or just the charcoal?

As for the tetras, how quickly do you think they would react? Would I have enough time to remove them and save them if they seemed to be having trouble, provided I kept a close watch on them? My glofish seemed fine the first 2 days I had them in the tank, and then the started acting so weird. They actually seemed better the night before and then I woke up in the morning with all 3 of the taking the long gravel nap. It was pretty traumatic for my 3 year old (and me, I'll admit).

 

[Berylla]

I bought enough scrapers to scrape the entire world, so hopefully I can get all the silicone off easily. I realllly glued that thing in there good...

I have some Purigen and some charcoal - would you do both together or just the charcoal?

As for the tetras, how quickly do you think they would react? Would I have enough time to remove them and save them if they seemed to be having trouble, provided I kept a close watch on them? My glofish seemed fine the first 2 days I had them in the tank, and then the started acting so weird. They actually seemed better the night before and then I woke up in the morning with all 3 of the taking the long gravel nap. It was pretty traumatic for my 3 year old (and me, I'll admit).

Tetras are like canaries in a coal mine. They react very quickly to chemical weirdness in a tank. It probably took about 3 days for the toxins to reach reach a critical level in the tank.

My guess that if your tank is still poisoned, the tetras will die in a week. Purigen soaks up nitrates, so in this case, I would keep it out of the tank. Just carbon.

I would also keep up with water changes of 2x a week at 50% to ensure that you are diluting whatever's in the tank. Change your carbon every 2 weeks too for the next month.

 

[Rivercats]

You just need to scrap off all that silicone. Most backgrounds are put on the back of the glass. Usually only 3D type backgrounds are attached inside the tank. You will most likely have to empty the tank in order to get the silicone off. The plants will be fine especially if they aren't showing any issues. Once you remove the silicone and wash out the tank well, I would refill it, replant it and add both Purgen and Carbon to the filter and let it run a week or two before adding any fish.

 

[Berylla]

You just need to scrap off all that silicone. Most backgrounds are put on the back of the glass. Usually only 3D type backgrounds are attached inside the tank. You will most likely have to empty the tank in order to get the silicone off. The plants will be fine especially if they aren't showing any issues. Once you remove the silicone and wash out the tank well, I would refill it, replant it and add both Purgen and Carbon to the filter and let it run a week or two before adding any fish.

Hi Rivercats,

I don't use Purigen in my established tank. Is it really necessary, especially in a newly cycled tank?

 

[Rivercats]

It's not needed in a newly cycled tank but this is advised for the OP with carbon due to any toxins released in the tank from the silicone. Granted the carbon is more adapt to remove toxins the Purgen is just added insurance in the event it can or does remove any.

 

[SgtMjr]

I have never heard of a background going inside an aquarium? Unless it is a textured wall scape type, in which case some Coral Epoxy works great. If its a plastic sheet! Use whatever you want, just attach it to the outside!

 

[Berylla]

I have never heard of a background going inside an aquarium? Unless it is a textured wall scape type, in which case some Coral Epoxy works great. If its a plastic sheet! Use whatever you want, just attach it to the outside!

I've seen the backgrounds in tanks - the kindof look like a pretty wall of rock. However, they get food and crap stuck behind it eventually and cause water quality issues. A discus owner found she had to remove it.

 

[gimmethatfish]

It's a 3D rock background, and it is inside the tank. I emptied the tank last night, scooped all the gravel into a 5 gallon bucket, and put the plants in a spare 10G. They are packed in there tight! Hopefully they will get enough light/nutrients if I rotate them a couple times a day and will live until I get the stupid thing scraped out. I haven't decided it I'm going to do another background or not. I really love the look of it.

My new filter should arrive today. Purigen or no?

 

[Berylla]

It's a 3D rock background, and it is inside the tank. I emptied the tank last night, scooped all the gravel into a 5 gallon bucket, and put the plants in a spare 10G. They are packed in there tight! Hopefully they will get enough light/nutrients if I rotate them a couple times a day and will live until I get the stupid thing scraped out. I haven't decided it I'm going to do another background or not. I really love the look of it.

My new filter should arrive today. Purigen or no?

Since your tank is so new, your are going to start another filter, and your tank is broken down and not running anymore, I would not.

"Purigen® controls ammonia, nitrites and nitrates by removing nitrogenous organic waste that would otherwise release these harmful compounds. Purigen’s™ impact on trace elements is minimal."[FONT=times new roman, times]

from: http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Purigen.html

"AC [activated carbon] is most effective at removing organic compounds such as volatile organic compounds, pesticides and benzene. It can also remove some metals, chlorine and radon."

from: http://www.msue.msu.edu/objects/con...sion_id.499668/workspace_id.-4/01500610.html/
[/FONT]


You need all the above to keep the cycle going and Purigen will soak it all up or reduce it greatly and you will have cycling issues. I don't think its necessary in a tank that has frequent water changes and proper maintenance.

 

[gimmethatfish]

Makes sense! Thanks for the advice

 

[Berylla]

You're welcome!