Native fish of yellowstone aquarium.

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Tbox

Aquarium Advice FINatic
Joined
Dec 2, 2012
Messages
634
Location
Seattle, WA.
Can it be done?
I'm an avid fly fisherman, and lived in Jackson Hole, WY. for a year when I was 20yrs old. That was 17yrs ago and im now posted in Seattle,WA. I've always had the desire to try a Yellowstone lake/River build.
Of course I know this is the Cichlid forum, but the most knowledgable well rounded fish keepers are found here.
My thought on the build is that a 200-300gal aquarium will be needed.
What's the best chiller on the market? Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
 
You might look into a pond instead of a tank.I love this idea!! Keep in mind, along with a chiller, if your going with any type of trout, they need plenty of oxygen.
 
Try poking wyominglite and wyrenegade, they are your best bets for this particular build :)
 
What an awesome awesome idea. I'v always been a fan of native type builds but a Yellowstone build sounds really cool!! You have to keep us updated on it. Very interested to follow along!
 
If you are planning on having trout in this tank here are a few tips:

•lots of oxygen/dissolved oxygen
•do not take them from the wild get them from a fish hatchery, because the trout will not eat if there wild unless you have a supply of their natural food.
• trout in general need water below 60 degrees
• very clean water ( I mean very!)
Good luck, sounds like a sweet tank idea!
 
If you are planning on having trout in this tank here are a few tips:

•lots of oxygen/dissolved oxygen
•do not take them from the wild get them from a fish hatchery, because the trout will not eat if there wild unless you have a supply of their natural food.
• trout in general need water below 60 degrees
• very clean water ( I mean very!)
Good luck, sounds like a sweet tank idea!

A friend of mine has a wild caught rainbow trout in his 450 gallon tank and it eats nls pellets. Also he keeps his water temp at 70 degrees and hasnt had any problems with it. Hes had the trout in there for 3 years now. Also he said that it loves lots of water flow it will sit in the current of his power heads all day. I would love to do something like this if i ever get a tank that large.
 
Very clean water is an understatement. Wyoming's native cutthroat trout species are very sensitive to nitrates, and can succumb to nitrate levels as low as 2 ppm within days. That is nitrates and not nitrites.

Species diversity is not especially high in the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem compared to the southern U.S. or a tropical region. Yellowstone lake itself only has two species of native fish, the longnose dace and the Yellowstone cutthroat trout. A native tank from this region could also include arctic grayling, mottled sculpin and longnose suckers. Off the top of my head, that's half the species native to Yellowstone Park proper, plus the addition of another subspecies of cutthroat trout.

I'd guess you'd have a heckuva time just gettin' this project started. The red tape required by either or both Game and Fish departments may (read as likely will) stop the whole project before ya get goin'. The potential for native fish to be released and become invasive or cross with native subspecies/hybridize with different species (trout in particular; cutthroats will hybridize with rainbows) makes most states very strict with importing native species and may very well make this logistically impossible from a legal standpoint.

It would probly be easier for ya to do a Columbia River biotope. Some of the species would likely be similar, and the legal aspects would be far easier to overcome and deal with.

WYite
 
I think that Wyomingite hit the major red tape issues you are going to run into. Also just an FYI, there is a big push now to get the Yellowstone cutthroat listed on the endangered species list - two previous attempts have failed and the Wy. Game and Fish is doing their best to keep them off the list, but I've been told they wouldn't be surprized to see it pass the next time it comes up because of the discovery of Lake trout in Yellowstone Lake.

Size and Filtration would definitely be the two biggest issues you would face initially, and chilling that volume of water would take a huge investment. Something on a much smaller scale, like a sculpin tank, on the other hand would be much more doable.
 
Told you to ask them :p


I think a native tank is a great idea, but if there's not a great deal is species diversity, then the idea can go two ways: one with a non-exact biotope, or one that is a species (excluding inverts) only tank
 
Thanks for all the great realistic feedback. Occasionally my fantasyland imagination for project builds takes over and puts probability on the back burner. I will look into other biotopes that are more in my region of play. It may take quite a while longer before the brain thunderstorm is done brewing and I'm able to start the project.

It really doesn't get any better than a fly fishing trip through The Yellowstone area. I caught monster 20 inch Cutthroat and ginormous Lake trout. I'm guessing the Lake trout are really having a serious impact on the Cutthroat populations?

Hope I can get back there this summer for a week or so. Such a awesome place!

Did anyone see that terrible movie "2012" with John Cusack? How funny was it when he outraced the Yellowstone eruption in a busted up RV and a Cessna plane? That movie was too over the top even for Hollywood.

Anyway, sorry bout the quick rant. Thanks again for the Terrific advice and solid enthusiasm.
 
Thanks for all the great realistic feedback. Occasionally my fantasyland imagination for project builds takes over and puts probability on the back burner. I will look into other biotopes that are more in my region of play. It may take quite a while longer before the brain thunderstorm is done brewing and I'm able to start the project.

It really doesn't get any better than a fly fishing trip through The Yellowstone area. I caught monster 20 inch Cutthroat and ginormous Lake trout. I'm guessing the Lake trout are really having a serious impact on the Cutthroat populations?

Hope I can get back there this summer for a week or so. Such a awesome place!

Did anyone see that terrible movie "2012" with John Cusack? How funny was it when he outraced the Yellowstone eruption in a busted up RV and a Cessna plane? That movie was too over the top even for Hollywood.

Anyway, sorry bout the quick rant. Thanks again for the Terrific advice and solid enthusiasm.

Not an issue at all, sometimes its a lot of fun just to speculate on some of these ideas and imagine what they would look like.

On an interesting side note, one of the topics that came up in one of my master's courses this summer was a discussion in regards to fishing in the park, and how it is a activity that is being reviewed and may go away in the future, since it is an activity that is "impacting on the wildlife." I don't know that it is anything we will see happen in our life times, but it is some interesting food for thought. The professor said the activity is getting a lot of pressure right now, because it is inheritely similar to hunting or trapping, and yet somehow its been a permitted activity when the others have not. Not sure that I agree that it falls into that same category in my own mind, but like I said, it did provide some food for thought.

Sometimes I think our own policies really do bite us in the butt big time. For instance, its interesting that we don't allow individuals to remove Lake trout from the Park, and yet the Park Service itself is engaged in a very active "seek and destroy" effort for these fish in Yellowstone Lake, where they have been classified as a invasive species. Yet at the same time we are seeking to eliminate them from one lake, we are actively engaged in raising them in hatcheries to stock into other lakes around the state. Go figure.
 
Very interesting discussion.
I've heard the same things concerning fishing in Yellowstone. Seems there's alot of controversy on exactly what kind of impact is being made on the fishery and other park wildlife. I personally, don't believe the impact is as great as hunting or trapping would be.
 
I'm all for a regulation of fly fishing only and catch and release throughout Yellowstone and Grande Teton NP. As such, the fish/game licensing revenue will go back into the Park funds to be used at their discretion. I'm not a game hunter, but I could imagine big money could be made for Some tags. It would all depend season to season on if game numbers become too high in certain areas. The winter kill off usually keeps things balanced though.
 
Keep the Lake trout though! It's like on the Columbia R. where the Northern Pike Minnow has had a bounty on its head for years.


The 2013 season for the fishery will start May 1, 2013 for all stations. The season will end September 30, 2013.

The Northern Pikeminnow Sport-Reward Program will have a booth at the following upcoming Northwest Sportsmen's shows:


The 2013 Sport reward payment schedule is as follows:

0-100 fish: $4 per fish
101-400 fish: $5 per fish
401 and above: $8 per fish
TAGGED FISH rewards are $500 per tagged fish.

Minimum Size is 9 inches.
 
Hi, Tbox. I signed up for this forum just to respond to your thread. I live at the base of the Wind River Range, and I have been kicking around a similar idea for a "Foothills Creek" biotope tank. If you extend your species choice outside Yellowstone Park (and you could--yellowstone cuts are native to big parts of the state, not just the park), you can have a lot more variety. If you go for non-game species, you only have to buy a minnow trapping/keeping permit from Game and Fish and you're good to go. I know because I kept native fish for a long time, and finally asked a game warden how to make it legal.

For game species, you would need a stocking permit, which you have to apply for. This can be hard to pull off, but here's my advice: Do your homework, and come up with a detailed plan for your tank. Then get in touch with a fisheries biologist at one of the Game and Fish offices in the state. Tell them what you want to do. They'll send you the application, and a list of hatcheries you can purchase from once your request is approved.

As further food for thought, here is my plan. The native species aren't all that colorful, but they more than make up for it with fascinating behavior. It is extremely fun to watch a tank of wild-caught native at feeding time--it's like piranhas on a dead cow! :)

Anyway, here's my overall concept. You can google the fish names for more info: I chose them for looks, interesting behavior, and the role they play in the ecosystem. I have personal experience keeping all of them except the sculpin (which I hear require live foods) and the trout. My personal favorites, in the aquarium, are flathead chubs and longnose dace. They have lots of personality.

The Foothills Creek Biotope
Setup:
150 or 200 Gallon Tank
Mirrored or rock background
Dark brown gravel substrate
Large canister filter; several powerheads concealed among rocks providing moderately strong current; several large bubblers for aeration and aesthetics
Chiller that will keep water between 50 and 60F
Decorated with:
--black or red shale forming a “waterfall” shelf in one back corner;
--one or two big branches of sagebrush driftwood embedded in the sand to make it look like an intermittent stream.
--A mule deer skull or shed elk antler, and a few beaver stumps on top of the waterfall.

Plants: I can’t find any information on native aquatic plants of Wyoming. Here are some I have observed that I would like to try:
A broadleaf, bright/pale green, shortish plant (pond weed? Cress?) that thrives in flowing ditches
A short, cabomba-like plant that grows in dense beds in the shallows of tributaries of the Sweetwater
A narrow, grass-like plant (narrowleaf pondweed? Some sort of val?) that grows in ponds; plant in sheltered spots or opposite from the powerheads.

Fish (minnow permits required from Game and Fish for non-game species; stocking permit required for trout)—some combination of the following:

5 Mountain Sucker
2 Mottled or Piute skulpin
3 Longnose Dace
12 Red Shiner
7 Golden shiner or silvery minnows
3 Flathead chub
2 Yellowstone cutthroat trout (least piscivorous of the trout, so the other fish would be relatively safe; also, this area’s only native trout species)
6 Plains Killifish


That's probably waaaaay more than enough, but hey, you asked for info! Now you have a bunch more. Good luck!

Tom
 
I should clarify, lest anyone consider me an expert, that this tank exists only in my head, where it occupies entirely too much room. But I think it would work...
 
Awesome ideas Whistling Badger! Glad I could coerce you into this forum. You seem to be much further along to breaking ground on this western Wyoming/Montana biotope than me.

I'd very much like to see you put your ideas behind glass and stop kicking them around. Others here want to see pics along the way too. You'll be teaching me a lot for what it's worth:).
 
Hi, Tbox. I signed up for this forum just to respond to your thread. I live at the base of the Wind River Range, and I have been kicking around a similar idea for a "Foothills Creek" biotope tank. If you extend your species choice outside Yellowstone Park (and you could--yellowstone cuts are native to big parts of the state, not just the park), you can have a lot more variety. If you go for non-game species, you only have to buy a minnow trapping/keeping permit from Game and Fish and you're good to go. I know because I kept native fish for a long time, and finally asked a game warden how to make it legal.

For game species, you would need a stocking permit, which you have to apply for. This can be hard to pull off, but here's my advice: Do your homework, and come up with a detailed plan for your tank. Then get in touch with a fisheries biologist at one of the Game and Fish offices in the state. Tell them what you want to do. They'll send you the application, and a list of hatcheries you can purchase from once your request is approved.

As further food for thought, here is my plan. The native species aren't all that colorful, but they more than make up for it with fascinating behavior. It is extremely fun to watch a tank of wild-caught native at feeding time--it's like piranhas on a dead cow! :)

Anyway, here's my overall concept. You can google the fish names for more info: I chose them for looks, interesting behavior, and the role they play in the ecosystem. I have personal experience keeping all of them except the sculpin (which I hear require live foods) and the trout. My personal favorites, in the aquarium, are flathead chubs and longnose dace. They have lots of personality.

The Foothills Creek Biotope
Setup:
150 or 200 Gallon Tank
Mirrored or rock background
Dark brown gravel substrate
Large canister filter; several powerheads concealed among rocks providing moderately strong current; several large bubblers for aeration and aesthetics
Chiller that will keep water between 50 and 60F
Decorated with:
--black or red shale forming a “waterfall” shelf in one back corner;
--one or two big branches of sagebrush driftwood embedded in the sand to make it look like an intermittent stream.
--A mule deer skull or shed elk antler, and a few beaver stumps on top of the waterfall.

Plants: I can’t find any information on native aquatic plants of Wyoming. Here are some I have observed that I would like to try:
A broadleaf, bright/pale green, shortish plant (pond weed? Cress?) that thrives in flowing ditches
A short, cabomba-like plant that grows in dense beds in the shallows of tributaries of the Sweetwater
A narrow, grass-like plant (narrowleaf pondweed? Some sort of val?) that grows in ponds; plant in sheltered spots or opposite from the powerheads.

Fish (minnow permits required from Game and Fish for non-game species; stocking permit required for trout)—some combination of the following:

5 Mountain Sucker
2 Mottled or Piute skulpin
3 Longnose Dace
12 Red Shiner
7 Golden shiner or silvery minnows
3 Flathead chub
2 Yellowstone cutthroat trout (least piscivorous of the trout, so the other fish would be relatively safe; also, this area’s only native trout species)
6 Plains Killifish


That's probably waaaaay more than enough, but hey, you asked for info! Now you have a bunch more. Good luck!

Tom

Sounds like a pretty cool concept. I would think you might run into some issues with the other fish, once the trout got big enough, but for awhile they would probably be alright. Native plants you have to be pretty careful with, most of our native require a dormancy period or they die off, I've found a few that will grow continuously, but not a lot.
 
I'd very much like to see you put your ideas behind glass and stop kicking them around. Others here want to see pics along the way too. You'll be teaching me a lot for what it's worth:).

Sure, I'll get right on it, as soon as I have a bigger house and a second income! ha ha ha
 
Sounds like a pretty cool concept. I would think you might run into some issues with the other fish, once the trout got big enough, but for awhile they would probably be alright. Native plants you have to be pretty careful with, most of our native require a dormancy period or they die off, I've found a few that will grow continuously, but not a lot.

Most of the cuts don't get above 8" in the small creeks; they only get really big in the lakes and big rivers. So I doubt they'd get big enough to be a real threat...but if they did that would be a nice problem to have, I guess.

Never thought about that with the plants. I wonder if you could kick the chiller down to just above freezing--35 or 40F--and turn the lights back to maybe 5 or 6 hours a day for a couple months. Then gradually bring both back up in the spring. Do you think that would provide the needed dormancy?

What sorts of natives have you tried? I suppose the alternative would be to just use generic cold-friendly plants (anacharis, etc), but going fully native would be so much cooler.

Tom
 
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