missileman
Aquarium Advice FINatic
No need for Prime if you can keep the levels safe with PWCs.
I use Amquel Plus myself if my levels get out of wack too badly.
I use Amquel Plus myself if my levels get out of wack too badly.
ok, ive messed up.... need help
- Thread starter ImTheCrew
- Start date
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ohok, thanks.
i just tested my water. currently it has around 1.0 ppm ammonia. the nitrate and nitrite are between 0-0.25
Stat
Aquarium Advice Regular
I would also suggest getting a filter rated at 20 gallons for a 10 gallon tank. You also when buying the filter want to get one with a foam block as well as the carbon insert. This Imho will help set up the helpful bacteria sooner. Top-fin and Tetra both sell them and they can be found at anywhere even Wal-mart. I would also check craigslist for any used tanks if you want to up size before buying new.
For the African Cichlids (they are Beautiful) I would recommend a 55 Gallon tank. Wal-mart sells a Starter Kit for Like $156 (comes with heater filter lights net and some other stuff and a stand for $89 if you perfer new Or once again Craigslist.
If you cannot get the LFS to take back the fish do the frequent water changes. Get the Filter ASAP Get an Air pump and a bubbler. Will help the gas exchange and use the Prime I recommend Stress Coat.
I did the same exact thing with my tank I had tetras and gold fish and mollys in the same tank the tetras died that night. Its possible to keep those fish alive it will be hard though. They have made it this long so you have it going for you aleast.
Good luck
For the African Cichlids (they are Beautiful) I would recommend a 55 Gallon tank. Wal-mart sells a Starter Kit for Like $156 (comes with heater filter lights net and some other stuff and a stand for $89 if you perfer new Or once again Craigslist.
If you cannot get the LFS to take back the fish do the frequent water changes. Get the Filter ASAP Get an Air pump and a bubbler. Will help the gas exchange and use the Prime I recommend Stress Coat.
I did the same exact thing with my tank I had tetras and gold fish and mollys in the same tank the tetras died that night. Its possible to keep those fish alive it will be hard though. They have made it this long so you have it going for you aleast.
Good luck
Fishyfanatic
Aquarium Advice Addict
I would use Prime as a declor. It's excellent to use when ammonia levels are present in a cycling tank. It's cheap and concentrated so it lasts a long time. You may want to pick up a bottle. 1 ml treats 10 gal.
Well, ImTheCrew, looks like you've come to the right place for your aquarium problems. Lots of good advice being given here by reading these posts.
Sorry the LFS guy ill-advised you. That'll happen, (they want your business) - now if they wanted your 'repeat business', they'd do better by you, but it all comes down to who do you trust? Actually, trust in yourself by getting good advice right from the top. Myself, I Google everything. A good study first will give you the proper information to make quality decisions. Don't believe everything you read or everything you hear. What I do is gather as many opinions together as possible and then make your determinations from that. Forums are the best place for that. One hour reading on the fish forums is worth more than one hour with somebody at the LFS. On the forums you have the knowledge base of so many more learned people than just one person at the LFS. Knowledge is power!
Don't think you're the first person to 'cycle with fish' - or that you'll be the last. We've all made mistakes either on our own, or through impatience, or by ill advice. Just keep gathering knowledge and your fish will love you for it
Sorry the LFS guy ill-advised you. That'll happen, (they want your business) - now if they wanted your 'repeat business', they'd do better by you, but it all comes down to who do you trust? Actually, trust in yourself by getting good advice right from the top. Myself, I Google everything. A good study first will give you the proper information to make quality decisions. Don't believe everything you read or everything you hear. What I do is gather as many opinions together as possible and then make your determinations from that. Forums are the best place for that. One hour reading on the fish forums is worth more than one hour with somebody at the LFS. On the forums you have the knowledge base of so many more learned people than just one person at the LFS. Knowledge is power!
Don't think you're the first person to 'cycle with fish' - or that you'll be the last. We've all made mistakes either on our own, or through impatience, or by ill advice. Just keep gathering knowledge and your fish will love you for it
HooKooDooKu
Aquarium Advice FINatic
On the surface (at least to me) there seems to be some conflicting advice going on here. After a little bit of thought, I've come to realize that I don't think there is any and incase anyone else is confused, I'm going to take a stab at sumerizing this, please correct anywhere I might be going wrong.
Stress Coat and Prime are basically the same product. They are both water conditioners that netrilize chlorine, chloramine, ammonia, and heavy metals. They each claim to help do other things, but they are both in the catagory of a "do it all for you" water conditioner.
Based in my experience in this forum, I would dare say the general consensus is that none of these products should be used to help cycle a fish tank. Basically, you don't use chemicals as a substitute for a cycled fish tank, you use frequent PWC to substitute for a completely cycled fish tank.
However, for any fish tank, cycled or not, when adding water to the tank, you have to make sure the fresh water does not contain chlorine, chloramine, and other "bad" things for the aquarium. Depending upon the quality of your tap water (assuming that is your source as it is for most of us fish keepers) all you need is a dechlorinator... and if chlorine (and NOT chloramine) is what is in your tap water, your dechlorinator can simply be time (let the water sit for a day in an open container and the chlorine will evaporate without adding ANY chemicals). Most of us do not have the time, space, pacinece, or good enough water quality to go that rought. So we instead use a water conditioner. While I don't know any of the details of the various water conditioners, the one recommended the absolute most frequently at AA is Prime by Seachem (sold in the red bottles).
So I think the collective wisdom of this board generally recomends Prime as a water conditioner for adding tap water to your tank, and recomends AGAINST any chemicals to "help" you cycle a fish tank.
missileman
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Close.
Stress coat does not effect amonia as does Prime or Amquel Plus.
Prime and Amquel Plus both take care of amonia, nitrite and nitrate but differ in how they do it.
Prime bonds the molecules creating safe compounds of a percentage of overall contaminant. Down side is test kits will not see a change in toxic levels as most cannot detect free and bound molecules and the levels still need to ultimitely need to be lowered, usually through water changes and/or normal nitrogen cycle.
Amquel Plus breaks the molecular bonds destroying a percentage of the contaminant, only good for about 1ppm amonia or nitrite and about 8ppm nitrate (my actual measurement and lower than manufacturers claims). Down side is it will also lower the the oxygen level in the water column and may effect PH and is more costly than Prime.
I prefer to use a conditioner that is solely for Chlorine and Cloramine for regular water changes (I use NovAqua+ by Kordon). I use Amquel Plus if I have problems.
Chloramine is more stable than Chlorine and does not dissipate like Chlorine does.
I dissagree about cycling products.
They do not work well but do cut the time by about 50% of using nothing at all. They all claim to contain live bacteria, I believe they contain bacterial spores. Takes longer than live, active, baceria will but much less than random bacterial spores from the atmosphere finding their way into your tank.
Stress coat does not effect amonia as does Prime or Amquel Plus.
Prime and Amquel Plus both take care of amonia, nitrite and nitrate but differ in how they do it.
Prime bonds the molecules creating safe compounds of a percentage of overall contaminant. Down side is test kits will not see a change in toxic levels as most cannot detect free and bound molecules and the levels still need to ultimitely need to be lowered, usually through water changes and/or normal nitrogen cycle.
Amquel Plus breaks the molecular bonds destroying a percentage of the contaminant, only good for about 1ppm amonia or nitrite and about 8ppm nitrate (my actual measurement and lower than manufacturers claims). Down side is it will also lower the the oxygen level in the water column and may effect PH and is more costly than Prime.
I prefer to use a conditioner that is solely for Chlorine and Cloramine for regular water changes (I use NovAqua+ by Kordon). I use Amquel Plus if I have problems.
Chloramine is more stable than Chlorine and does not dissipate like Chlorine does.
I dissagree about cycling products.
They do not work well but do cut the time by about 50% of using nothing at all. They all claim to contain live bacteria, I believe they contain bacterial spores. Takes longer than live, active, baceria will but much less than random bacterial spores from the atmosphere finding their way into your tank.
HooKooDooKu
Aquarium Advice FINatic
I said it did based on API's own website:
http://aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=43
"Also works instantly to remove chlorine, chloramines and ammonia from tap water."
When I was saying not to use chemicals for the cycling process, I was refering to chemicals that try to play with the ammonia.
But here, I assume you're talking about products like API's Stress Zyme. If so, then what you say makes a lot of sense. I've heard of others taking 6 to 8 weeks to cycle a tank. But with my very first tank, starting from scratch and a live goldfish, I cycled it in one month. But I used products like Stress Zyme before I read on AA the suggestions not to bother with the products, that only bio-spira could quickly cycle a tank.
missileman
Aquarium Advice FINatic
I missread info about Stress Coat. or full info was lacking at the online vendor site I researched. Still doesn't cover Nitrite or Nitrate as the other two do.
Yea, Bio-Spira is the only product proven to cycle a tank in as little as a week, at least the old refrigerated version. For the new non refrigerated versions (Bio-Spira for salwater and Tetra Safestart for freshwater) the jury is still out.
Yea, Bio-Spira is the only product proven to cycle a tank in as little as a week, at least the old refrigerated version. For the new non refrigerated versions (Bio-Spira for salwater and Tetra Safestart for freshwater) the jury is still out.
missileman
Aquarium Advice FINatic
PS: here is where I researched Stress Coat. It doesn't mention amonia anywhere, You would figure it should as that would be a selling point?
Aquarium Water Conditioners & Chlorine Removers: Aquarium Pharmacueticals Stress Coat®
Aquarium Water Conditioners & Chlorine Removers: Aquarium Pharmacueticals Stress Coat®
HooKooDooKu
Aquarium Advice FINatic
The web site also says 'Please click on "More Information" for usage directions.' and I can't find "More Information".
But then again, they also are pretty skimppy on any details. For example, that retailer also does NOT mention that Stress Coat is for chlorine and chloramine... but no where do they mention cholramine, only chlorine.
The more info button is below and to the right of the picture. The link to the more info page is below
"....Stress Coat Marine also removes chlorine, chloramines, and ammonia in tap water..."
Stress Coat® Plus & Stress Coat® Marine
"....Stress Coat Marine also removes chlorine, chloramines, and ammonia in tap water..."
Stress Coat® Plus & Stress Coat® Marine
missileman
Aquarium Advice FINatic
LOL, I have looked at it 3 times and I now finally see where it says removes amonia.(the older I get the worse my eyes are)
Now I have to wonder how?
Does it bind it like Prime and not actually remove it or does it break it down molecularly like Amquel or maybe something else?
Now I have to wonder how?
Does it bind it like Prime and not actually remove it or does it break it down molecularly like Amquel or maybe something else?
HooKooDooKu
Aquarium Advice FINatic
As a guess, since they don't really stress the fact that it removes ammonia (is only claims it can remove ammonia from tap water, no mention is made about lowering ammonia levels in your tank), I would think that it has just a little bit of something that simply binds with it to detoxify it.
So, getting back to ImTheCrew's initial question -
From reading the posts it looks like Im.. plans to keep these (3) 1-1/4" fish - at least for the time being - and in the 10 gallon tank.
Given that - I suppose the best thing is to keep changing a large enough percentage of the water to keep the ammonia under control, till it cycles. Might take a long time to cycle with the Cichlids growing in there though.
Then perhaps over enough time either Im.. will get a larger tank just for these guys (hey, I've gone out and bought enough equipment to set up a whole new tank just for (1) fish before!) You never know
What's the latest news with them Cichlids, ImTheCrew?
From reading the posts it looks like Im.. plans to keep these (3) 1-1/4" fish - at least for the time being - and in the 10 gallon tank.
Given that - I suppose the best thing is to keep changing a large enough percentage of the water to keep the ammonia under control, till it cycles. Might take a long time to cycle with the Cichlids growing in there though.
Then perhaps over enough time either Im.. will get a larger tank just for these guys (hey, I've gone out and bought enough equipment to set up a whole new tank just for (1) fish before!) You never know
What's the latest news with them Cichlids, ImTheCrew?
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