Red Cherries Dying! Help?!

[teamhex]

I got my first Shrimp(Red Cherry) on Friday and thought all my parameters were good. I waited a long time to make sure the cycle was complete. I've averaged 2 dead a day so far. The last one looks like he molted before he died(around lunch today). The rest still had their deep/bright red color when they died. The only thing that seems off that I can tell is my PH. Here is my measurements. Note that I do not understand the hardness testing 100%...the chart goes off how many drops and I find that odd. KH wasn't a big deal, but the GH test was hard to tell. I tested by halfway filling a solo cup and pouring it into the test tubes that way.

PH - 8.2

Nitrite - 0ppm

Ammonia - 0ppm

Nitrate - 10ppm

KH - (5 Drops - 65-80ppm)

GH - (4 Drops - 70ish ppm)

TDS - 225ppm

I don't really know what to do. I'm super bummed about this as it's my first batch and I just don't know what I did wrong or what's going on. Does anything look out of place? I know the PH looks high, but I did a 10% water change 2 days ago with RO water. I figured that would bring the PH down from the 8 that I saw...but instead it seems a bit higher. 8 is what comes out of my tap. Not sure what I can do to safely bring that down or fix this.

 

[Autumnsky]

Sorry to hear of the losses. It is a hard thing to see them die.

How long is a "long time" for the cycle to be complete?

Shrimp do not really like a brand new tank.

8.2 is pretty high.

Temp?

Do you know what the pH and all the other numbers were at the lfs where you got them?

Any deaths I always do pwc, remove any dead bodies as well. I would do around 15% then another 15%.

What dechlorinator type product are you using?
Foods?
Oother additives/chemicals?

Is it a used tank? Perhaps copper contamination, any blue or green tint to the caulking? If there is coloring on it, get them out and use some additional Prime, 5x recommended dose. With new water and none of the same substrate, etc.

As long as there is no ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates stay safe, I would do another pwc every couple days of a smaller amount like the 10%.

Shrimp don't like the parameters changing very much either.

Did you have deaths before you used RO?

 

[teamhex]

Sorry to hear of the losses. It is a hard thing to see them die.

How long is a "long time" for the cycle to be complete?

Shrimp do not really like a brand new tank.

8.2 is pretty high.

Temp?

Do you know what the pH and all the other numbers were at the lfs where you got them?

Any deaths I always do pwc, remove any dead bodies as well. I would do around 15% then another 15%.

What dechlorinator type product are you using?
Foods?
Oother additives/chemicals?

Is it a used tank? Perhaps copper contamination, any blue or green tint to the caulking? If there is coloring on it, get them out and use some additional Prime, 5x recommended dose. With new water and none of the same substrate, etc.

As long as there is no ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates stay safe, I would do another pwc every couple days of a smaller amount like the 10%.

Shrimp don't like the parameters changing very much either.

Did you have deaths before you used RO?

A month for the cycle. I'm super impatient, but I used stability the first week. Using a air powered sponge filter and waited for my nitrite and ammonia to stay at 0 for 4 days with no water changes. I should mention it was fish less. I added food to the tank every 3 days and saw my levels go up, then level off and drop to 0. Nitrate was 70ppm at the end so I did a large water change and brought it to about 10ppm(where it sits now) before adding anything. I've tested daily and they've stay at zero with only the nitrates going up.

Temp in the tank is nornally steady at 75-76f. Not sure how I can safely lower the ph. My tap water is 8.

I got 11 RCS on Friday from Petco. No chemicals used other than Sea Chem Prime for the conditioning of the water. I haven't had good luck feeding them(small piece of an algae waffer in a glass dish, that and Shrimp king complete) I've seen some of them cruise over and grab some But, I had(may still have) a brown algae problem, during week 3 of my cycle so there's a ton for them to graze on. I think it was due to the 10hr light and high nitrate levels. It's brown and comes right off. I also had some cobweb like stuff on my hairgrass and baby tears. I took those out and used a new tooth brush to clean them in treated water. The Zebra Nerrites are having a field day and have cleaned a lot of it already and the shrimp are grazing on my anubius and the walls.

I'm using Fluval shrimp stratum...which is another reason I'm confused by the PH. During week 2 of the fish less cycle it was 6.5ph. Now it's at or slightly above 8. It's like the substrate lost it's buffering ability in a couple of weeks. I really only picked it for my plants and the look of it. I have Dwarf hair grass, Dwarf baby tears, 3 anubius petite, and I had an amazon sword compacta in there, but removed it because it basically became see through.

I did have most of the deaths(only the one that died after molting came after the RO) before the RO and the tds and ph didn't change much with a 10% water change I did on Sunday. Prime treated RO replacing that 10% I removed in that case. The tank was used, but i rinsed with super hot water and used prime to let it sit for a day before emptying and refilling.

Someone else said don't do a water change. I'm worried stress is why they're dying. They had a dead Amano in that tank and i heard they're bullet proof so maybe Petco is mostly to blame? Though I didn't drip acclimate them. I was told they didn't need it because our city water was the same. I just floated them for 30 minutes and moved them over via a small net.

They also just received the little guys that morning and I bought them. Not sure about their water, but I'm 4 minutes away so they are super close. My city is switching to cloramines soon so I'm worried about that. Should I use more Prime? I use 2 drops per gallon currently(based on what people tell me online). Idk. I'm about to get up and check the tank right now.

Ok no deaths in the last 18 hours. Hopefully no more die while I'm at work today. I can return the dead ones and they're supposed to get more in Friday. I think I'll get the stock they have 10-12 and I'll drip acclimate them for 2+ hours before moving them over. I really hope that wasn't what caused it. If it was, I will not listen to any Petco employees advice. The guy said he breeds shrimp and that Cherries didn't need drip acclimation since we use the same city water. But again...they just got them in that morning. MAybe too much change too quickly?

 

[TMaier]

Your tank is really new. I would suggest adding snails and plants and letting it mature for 2-3 months and then try again. I use 3-4 drops of Prime per gallon. My city water needs it.

 

[Autumnsky]

Also DW is wonderful along with leaf litter for conditioning the water which help lower Ph and grow microscopic creatures.

In your cycle, You saw nitrit's and then nitrates spike as well an did a large pwc at the end too?

I also have had a bad experience wherer a petco shrimp just,sideways over and died in a very good tank and a different time a good experience.

 

[Autumnsky]

Keeping ph stable is more important do not use chemicals. 8 is top of the numbers for them. Also try using water that has had a day to off gas just let it sit in the bucket.

After this business is over 10% pwc is a good number. Helps minimize change.

 

[teamhex]

Your tank is really new. I would suggest adding snails and plants and letting it mature for 2-3 months and then try again. I use 3-4 drops of Prime per gallon. My city water needs it.

I will step up the amount of prime during water changes then.

That long!? Ive had plants since the first week and had some pest snails from those plants. I did get two big zebra nerrite snails with the shrimp. They've had zero issues eating almost all the algae since I got them. I have food for then once the algae runs out. I figured the tank is cycled so it should be ok as long as I dont see nitrite and ammonia. I will admit I'm new and most of my information comes from online...Im sure not all advice is good advice. But they always stressed the nitrite and ammonia be at 0. The remaining 5 seem to be doing ok today(so far). I blanched a small piece of fresh organic spinach and put it into the feeding dish. Maybe they'll nibble at it. How long should I leave food in the feeding dish before removing it?

 

[teamhex]

Also DW is wonderful along with leaf litter for conditioning the water which help lower Ph and grow microscopic creatures.

In your cycle, You saw nitrit's and then nitrates spike as well an did a large pwc at the end too?

I also have had a bad experience wherer a petco shrimp just,sideways over and died in a very good tank and a different time a good experience.

First i saw Ammonia get to 4ppm, then it almost all disappeared as the nitrite went to 5ppm+(water test only goes that high). Then both dropped to 0 a week or so later and the Nitrate was 70ppm or so. I did a 70% water change and the Nitrates were at 10ppm and have held there. I'll try that bucket over night method. Should I treat the water and let it sit...or let it sit then treat it before adding? I almost have to do this method because it's so hot that the water coming out of the tap mid-day on is hot. I either do them in the morning...or I can't match that temp.

What is DW? I have half of a dried Indian almond leaf in the tank currently. They love to pick at it. Should I just add an entire leaf to the tank? I got them for $1ea at a LFS(not petco).

As of right now I haven't lost anymore so they seem to be doing good. They putt around the tank picking at things. I lost track of one of them, but an hour ago I popped by the house to start my sous vide for tonight's dinner and counted them all.
I'm going to go ahead and fill a bucket with treated water and let it sit for a day or so. I want to test the PH then. I just read that if you take tap water and test it...the ph will seem really high. I want to go ahead and let it sit and then test it. Could that be the same situation with the tank? I mean the tank has been running so I would assume it should be fine. If I have to I'll buy an RO unit and just start using it. I would only need 3 gallons a week between my two tanks so I shouldn't need to go crazy on a nice unit. I assume this means I'll need to buy some minerals to add to the new water and test it with the TDS meter until it's super close to the same.

 

[skrapeNKA]

My RCS colony is living in water that's also testing 8.2 pH; as others have said it's more important that it's stable. I had a number of strange, seemingly unexplained shrimp deaths when my colony was getting started, too. Ever since mine started breeding, the mystery deaths have fallen off dramatically and most of them are likely peacock gudgeon related sport-killings at this point. I'd assume this is because the shrimp born in your tank have never lived in any other water and won't be dealing with the stress of changing environments / water conditions.

In the meantime, you could try drip-acclimating any new shrimp over the course of an hour or two to more slowly introduce them to the new water conditions.

Edit: even if you are receiving your water from the same source as your PetCo, it's going to be a bit different at your faucet than it is at theirs. It's flowing through different pipes for different amounts of time! Always better to be safe with finicky things like shrimp

 

[teamhex]

Good to know your Ph is the same.

I have the drip line ready to go with an airline valve. I also have the tape and container ready to go. They said they'd be getting more on Friday. Im going to give them another shot based on their return policy and the amazing color of the shrimp. I'll aim for 2 hours+ on the drip.

 

[teamhex]

I had one die overnight. Seemed to be stable. I'm testing at 0-0-0 now and the PH has come down to 8. TDS is around 200 now. I did add a new Indian almond leaf 2 days ago with a 10% water change. I'm going to go ahead and give it another shot. I just don't see what could have gone wrong. I'm worried that Petco doesn't drip acclimate them so no matter what I do I'm going to get ones that die I assume. I'm going to see what happens. This time I will drip them for 2+ hours and see if that makes a difference.

 

[Autumnsky]

DW is driftwood.

Also remember the temp on a long time drip. If the house is so hot it might not be an issue, usually would be more so if cold. But Cherry shrimp do not need to have very hot water, they are better with cooler.

You can't ever know how bad they are when you get them from a new shipment. I am having similar issues with Neon Tetras, they just take a beating in prep and shipping and introduction and the pet stores treatment and tank conditions as well.

Honestly I haven't had to do too much drip, but slowly add new water.