Red Ludwigia Help wanted

[meegosh]

Thanks for the kind words about the tank! I've never kept convicts or really read into them that much so I can't really comment on their compatibility. The tapajos are fairly peaceful towards other larger fish but (as you may have read) they do seem to like picking on smaller fish, long finned fish.

As far as mushy stems.. I never really experienced that except with my e. diversifolia (sp?). For any of my stems I would cut the bottom of the stem back some and trim the top. I was told years ago that this promotes new growth and a new root system. Plus, the top fills in more than just a single stem would planted normally.

I've used plenty of substrates over the years. I used Eco Complete when my 30g high tech tank was in its prime but wasn't too impressed with it to be honest. I eventually switched back to playsand (Quikrete Premium Playsand) because it was easier to clean and looked better. I've used playsand, as I said, and AquaQuartz's pool filter sand. I wasn't too impressed with the PFS though. It was a larger grain size than what I was anticipating and ended up trapping debris just like gravel does.

I would shy away from mixing sand with Eco Complete.. the sand will settle to the bottom and the larger grain Eco will come up to the top over time.

 

[Backwater]

Thanks for the kind words about the tank! I've never kept convicts or really read into them that much so I can't really comment on their compatibility. The tapajos are fairly peaceful towards other larger fish but (as you may have read) they do seem to like picking on smaller fish, long finned fish.

As far as mushy stems.. I never really experienced that except with my e. diversifolia (sp?). For any of my stems I would cut the bottom of the stem back some and trim the top. I was told years ago that this promotes new growth and a new root system. Plus, the top fills in more than just a single stem would planted normally.

I've used plenty of substrates over the years. I used Eco Complete when my 30g high tech tank was in its prime but wasn't too impressed with it to be honest. I eventually switched back to playsand (Quikrete Premium Playsand) because it was easier to clean and looked better. I've used playsand, as I said, and AquaQuartz's pool filter sand. I wasn't too impressed with the PFS though. It was a larger grain size than what I was anticipating and ended up trapping debris just like gravel does.

I would shy away from mixing sand with Eco Complete.. the sand will settle to the bottom and the larger grain Eco will come up to the top over time.

I may have to agree with you on the Eco Complete idk yet. This is my first tank with it (Wisteria tank) and it's ok but I did notice some bad PH and Nitrite spikes at first I think because I used the bio-organism bacteria in the liquid goop that comes with the bag after the tank had already cycled for 2 weeks. So far it seems ok but and the Wisteria is looking a ton better now but the verdict is still out... BTW ... The Wisteria seems like it's improving over night every night so that's awesome the cutting on the left and the small center cuttings seems like they had huge improvements over night from last picture. I think that is primarily because starting Monday of this week I did x2 and x3 the daily doses of the API Co2 Booster and Wisteria absolutely loves it. The Bacopa Monneiri (Moneywort) and the Bacopa Carolinana (Lemon Bacopa) in the Repens tank love it as well. The Repens likes it too and has firmed up the stalks.

I was kind of thinking the same thing about mixing the sand and Eco Complete but moreso from the angle of too much compaction... How many inches do you keep the play sand at because I heard that if it's under 3" you're ok and not at a bad risk of compaction. Have you had any issues with compaction or do you have to re-root yearly ? I was leaning towards the heat cables because supposedly they reduce the need for re-plantings do to root rot. Ideally I'd like to produce the optimum water table effect with a 3 layer substrate (Sand, laterite, gravel,) if i trade in the Convict for Rainbow fish but 1. I heard the heat cables are old news
2. I think the Rainbows like sand on top layer.

If I stick with the S. American Cichlids I may just go sand.

Also, what carpet crew do you use for the sand ? I would be afraid to put any snails or shrimp with my convict though :/. I think I heard the M. Trumpet Snails help a lot with sand but not sure if that's just gravel or sand also...

IDk .. thank fully that project is not around the corner yet lol

PS thanks for post I'm gonna check your blog sometime this week.
peace

 

[meegosh]

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there is a place in the hobby for Eco, it just wasn't in my tanks. I would have rather spent $40 on more plants than two 20lb bags of Eco, that's all. I had auto dosers running so lack of ferts were never an issue.

When I had sand in that tank I had probably 3.5" in the back and close to 2" up front and on one side. I never had issues with root/stem rot on my stems, just the e. diversifolia which I ended up giving most away. I experimented with anything I could get my hands on for a reasonable price and saw what worked in my tank.

I had some nice greens in my tank so then I went and bought a whole order of nothing but reds/pinks and ended up keeping the l. aromatica and a few others after they took off.

I did have MTS in my tank that had the sand so I know they were digging under the sand all over the place. They never dug up any roots though, even my UG. I've read into the heater cables but never really gave it a serious thought. Figured I could spend my money elsewhere.

 

[Backwater]

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there is a place in the hobby for Eco, it just wasn't in my tanks. I would have rather spent $40 on more plants than two 20lb bags of Eco, that's all. I had auto dosers running so lack of ferts were never an issue.

When I had sand in that tank I had probably 3.5" in the back and close to 2" up front and on one side. I never had issues with root/stem rot on my stems, just the e. diversifolia which I ended up giving most away. I experimented with anything I could get my hands on for a reasonable price and saw what worked in my tank.

I had some nice greens in my tank so then I went and bought a whole order of nothing but reds/pinks and ended up keeping the l. aromatica and a few others after they took off.

I did have MTS in my tank that had the sand so I know they were digging under the sand all over the place. They never dug up any roots though, even my UG. I've read into the heater cables but never really gave it a serious thought. Figured I could spend my money elsewhere.

Hey Meegosh,

Thurough reply man thanks... that about sums up what I needed to know. Yea the MTS I heard are wonders for, something like, bacteria gas pockets and root health in substrate?... If so, that's wonderful because it would kill the need (and added expense) for heat cables in a sandy substrate hopefully.

The only other thing I've read is that sand substrate isn't really nutrient ritch with some minerals and stuff like say the Eco Complete or especially Laterite... It would be nice if I could some how mix in some laterite in the bottom 3rd and still have mostly sand showing... is that fesible you think ? I do think laterite is better than Eco Complete but it's even more expensive unless in a mix like say this > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...D=525405284&catargetid=1570177387&cagpspn=pla
Any word about that product ?


Thanks again for post .. ps mini update, wisteria is still looking great and growing like wild fire. The L. Repens is growing better and getting some stem growth and the Bacop Monnieri and the Lemon Bacop are growing so dang well it's unbelieve able, they have big thick tear shaped new growth on every top... that Co2 booster was a life saver. I can only imagine how much better real Co2 DIY setups will be. We'll know soon enough , I'm back at work starting monday so possibly by mid October I'll have a new light on the way and ready to start the Co2.

 

[Backwater]

Well, the saga continues in the Repens tank... it now has a very dark green thin hair like algae (thought it was aquarium cotton strings at first) all over a bunch of leaves and it's starting to spread. It's on the filter as well. I'm going to do thurough clean but was wondering if you might know what it is and how to treat it ?

 

[Backwater]

UPDATE:

Well good news and some so so.
Well first off, I did get rid of most that hair algae mechanically and the L. Repens tank is looking much better in that respect. Also, THAT API Co2 BOOSTER ABSOLUTELY ROCKS!! Man you won't believe the difference in my tanks just after a month or two. Both tanks (we're - tell you why in a minute) looking fantastic. The wisteria is still growing perfectly and the L. Repens got big and tall and beautiful along with both species of Bacopa. However, this weekend I added the DIY Co2 to both tanks and I'm not 100% sure how good it's going to work yet. In the mean time I am still adding doses of the Co2 Booster to both tanks, more to the Wisteria tank than the Repens because I've now added Anacharis mixed in with the Repens. It looks absolutely fantastic!! But, I didn't Co2 boost for a day and the Repens lost a lot of leafs practically over night. I am adding small doses of the boost to that Repens tank but I can't add too much because it will kill the Anacharis in large doses. I hope the new DIY is enough to feed the Repens tank, read on.

Both tanks have a nano diffuser in them and both are spitting out tons of tiny bubbles (that's the good part). However, the bubbles in both are just going straight up in a column until they hit the surface and they hit the surface near where the surface is being agitated. So on one side, the Co2 is exhanging at the surface ok but on the other side, is it saturating in the tank enough ? One site adviced having the bubbles rise up near a current flow so that they spread throughout the tank and I can do that but only if I use bubble stones with a normal air pump close by. If I do that, then yes the bubbles go all over the tank but my questions are....

1. Is the column of TINY bubbles going straight up to the surface ok to allow the Co2 to saturate in the tank enough to do any good ?
2. Is it ok if they hit the surface near the surface agitation?
3. Should I put the diffusers near a bubble stone (about 3 inches away creates the best effect without mixing the two types of bubbles) so that the tiny bubble get disperssed throughout the tank enough ?
4. If I use the air stones will that just cause increased Co2 exchange at the surface thus removing more Co2 anyways? I wouldn't want that.

Please offer any advice help you can...
I would provide pictures but seem to have lost my USB cable to my camera phone.... will find it soon and try to upload some.

Sorry for way late update:
Thanks!

 

[aqua_chem]

1. Is the column of TINY bubbles going straight up to the surface ok to allow the Co2 to saturate in the tank enough to do any good ?
2. Is it ok if they hit the surface near the surface agitation?
3. Should I put the diffusers near a bubble stone (about 3 inches away creates the best effect without mixing the two types of bubbles) so that the tiny bubble get disperssed throughout the tank enough ?
4. If I use the air stones will that just cause increased Co2 exchange at the surface thus removing more Co2 anyways? I wouldn't want that.

1) Ideally, you want no bubbles to reach the surface of the water as that represents unutilized CO2, and therefore inefficiency. If you're getting good CO2 levels, I wouldn't worry about it that much.

2) You shouldn't be having so many bubbles coming to the surface that it creates significant surface aggitation; if you do, then you likely either have way too much CO2 going in, have too small of a diffuser, or have some sort of hardware failure (dirty diffuser, cheap diffuser, etc).

3-4) You should not be running an airstone at any time that you want CO2 to be preset in appreciable amounts in the tank. In fact, the most common use of an airstone in a CO2 injected tank is when you want to rapidly remove CO2 from your tank for whatever reason (accidental overdoses being the most common reason). If you have an airstone running, you are shooting yourself in the foot for the reasons that you describe. The turbulence breaks surface tension, thereby causing gas exchange (in this case, offgassing). I would definite remove the airstone from the setup, or alternately running it on a timer such that it only turns on after your photocycle.

 

[Backwater]

Erueka

1) Ideally, you want no bubbles to reach the surface of the water as that represents unutilized CO2, and therefore inefficiency. If you're getting good CO2 levels, I wouldn't worry about it that much.

2) You shouldn't be having so many bubbles coming to the surface that it creates significant surface aggitation; if you do, then you likely either have way too much CO2 going in, have too small of a diffuser, or have some sort of hardware failure (dirty diffuser, cheap diffuser, etc).

3-4) You should not be running an airstone at any time that you want CO2 to be preset in appreciable amounts in the tank. In fact, the most common use of an airstone in a CO2 injected tank is when you want to rapidly remove CO2 from your tank for whatever reason (accidental overdoses being the most common reason). If you have an airstone running, you are shooting yourself in the foot for the reasons that you describe. The turbulence breaks surface tension, thereby causing gas exchange (in this case, offgassing). I would definite remove the airstone from the setup, or alternately running it on a timer such that it only turns on after your photocycle.

Ok, well that's kind of what I was thinking. I have been bubbling at night just to not risk fish death because I have had 2 deaths since the DIY C02. However, none of the fish are gasping or rapid fins so the deaths could be unconnected.

I moved the nano filters to the right side wall away from the filter so the bubbles do go up to the surface but they glide along the water surface longer and hang in a dead zone or calm zone and not directly in the agitation. The bubbles do still hit the surfact though and every video I've seen on youtube shows them hitting the surface for just about any glass diffuser I've seen other than an atomizer... any thoughts on that ?

On the update side of things, I figured I couldn't fight the battle on two fronts so I removed the Anacharis and took it back.. LOW AND BEHOLD, I found more BACOPA CAROLINIANNA (lemon Bacopa) and I love it! I also found out that what I thought was Moneywort in my tank was actually GREEN LUDWIGIA, and that has been growing like wild fire. The GL is in the middle of the right clumb bookended by the Lemon Bacopia on the left and newly added Bacopa Monneiri (Moneywort) on the right side by the glass. I recently did a cutting of the GL and RL and the GL still looks great and the RL is bouncing back from a short lack of phosphates and yellowing leaves but I'm dosing it good with leaf zone and it's comeing back from yellowish leaves. The yellowing leaves is from lack of phosphates right, meegosh? If so guys, should I think about pulling out the Zeolite (saftey net) soon. Please advise more on that part cause I am having to pump a lot of leafzone in the repens tank. Westeria is fine without it. The Westeria love the Flourish (non-co2 version).

I have enclosed some pictures .. tell me what you think ... I think the tanks looks drastically better and a 10fold improvement from when I first posted with this problem. THANK YOU AQUACHEM AND MEEGOSH FOR ALL YOUR HELP! and ALL THE OTHERS TOO!

Ps. I got a new Nexus phone and it absolutely rocks at pitures. (but GS2-G3 is better)
PSS. I still owe you a membership once I start my new job on the 10th.
PSSS>>> STAGE ONE COMPLETED ! NEXT COMES THE CRYPS!!!

 

[meegosh]

Looks great! Glad to hear you are figuring everything out. Some impressive growth from the ludwigia. The yellowing could be lack of phosphates or a nitrogen deficiency. Doing a quick test of your nitrates will rule the latter out.

 

[Backwater]

Looks great! Glad to hear you are figuring everything out. Some impressive growth from the ludwigia. The yellowing could be lack of phosphates or a nitrogen deficiency. Doing a quick test of your nitrates will rule the latter out.

Thanks again meegosh. Both the Red and Green Ludwigia were vining out over half the tank and natural rooting was flowing down but the leaves were heavily shaded on the Red Ludwigia side so I took your advice and cut them down. Thanks for the advice!. Now the light is hitting them better and they are bouncing back from the cutting just 3 days ago.

I think I finally busted through the newbie level or atleast I popped the bubble. I'm finally getting the stability and growth and happy harmony plant environement I wanted lol. Will do I'll check my levels tonight and report back.

 

[Backwater]

Looks great! Glad to hear you are figuring everything out. Some impressive growth from the Ludwigia. The yellowing could be lack of phosphates or a nitrogen deficiency. Doing a quick test of your nitrates will rule the latter out.

Ok well I just tested and the Phosphates are at 2.0 ppm and the Nitrates are at 40-80 ppm (honestly looks more like 80).

That tank always runs high in Nitrates cause of Florida water I think. I do have a separate phosphates test kit and it says 2.0.. That is kind of low. It was at 10.0 once when I had the BGA outbreak but I used Phosguard to get it down and it's been at 2.0 ever since. The Phosguard had been out of the tank for 6 months.

I don't think the Nitrates are the issue unless too high is the cause. What do you think ? Is Nitrogen deficiency caused by too high Nitrates or too low ?

 

[Backwater]

Looks great! Glad to hear you are figuring everything out. Some impressive growth from the ludwigia. The yellowing could be lack of phosphates or a nitrogen deficiency. Doing a quick test of your nitrates will rule the latter out.

Look what I found > Freshwater Aquarium Plant Growth & Nutrient Deficiency Issue... - Seachem Support Forums

Actually makes sense because today I used the flourish in the Ludwigia tank and Flourish (non-C02 version) is mainly Iron and magnesium... I live in Florida so my PH is usually around 7.5. Seems logical sense when I used the flourish today, some of the leaves of the Moneywort were bright yellow when I came home but were green when I left for work and the Moneywort is right on top of the nano diffuser. I think I could be choking it with too much C02 and Iron in a High PH level tank... Seems even more suspicious because previously the L. Repens was yellowing when the diffuser was on that side of the tank but didn't today and now the Moneywort is yellowing. What do you think ? I think It's an easy fix, a little PH down and I'll move the diffuser

 

[aqua_chem]

There aren't many deficiencies that will show the fast of a turn around once restored. Iron certainly won't, but magnesium certainly will. That might have been what you were observing.

 

[Backwater]

There aren't many deficiencies that will show the fast of a turn around once restored. Iron certainly won't, but magnesium certainly will. That might have been what you were observing.

Hi aqua-chem, Welcome back!

Let me clarrify. According to that Seachem community post Freshwater Aquarium Plant Growth & Nutrient Deficiency Issue... - Seachem Support Forums it's not actually a defficency it's more like an inhability for the plants to properly use/break down the high amounts of Co2,Iron in the precesence of higher PH or Higher PH in the water making it harder to disolve the Co2, Iron and Mag. Esentially, I'm choking the plants with too much of those and I believe it because in addition to the forementioned yellowing while at work, when I came home last night I moved the diffuser away from the money wort and low and behold the leaves went green over night. The ones that were yellow bounced back to normal green. Remember, I am using both the DIY and the Booster with a Flourish (non-c02 version) dosed yestereday in a high PH tank .. .the article states C02 and Iron are harder to difuse and dissolve in a high PH tank and the over abundance will cause many affects. The guy in the article solved his problem by lowering the PH, I just moved my diffsuer away from right under the plants. When I moved the diffuser all the yellow leaves went back to green over night... wierd huh ?

The good news is it seems like this yellowing according to the article and the expierences with yellowing at day and bounce back at night could just need some minor tweaking with PH and C02. I don't want to lower PH to much cause that's a molly tank and I believe they like higher PH. I'm going to try and see how it does without the API today. The Westiera tank btw couldn't care less about PH lol. That plant loves plenty of C02 and plenty of flourish and love API too so no problems with yellowing there.