Shipping Supplies ~ Questions from a Packaging Guru

[Diablos]

Sorry there wasn't really a good place to put this post... Hopefully it gets some attention here.

Hello Community!

I have a few questions and am hoping to get your feedback. I actually work in the packaging industry and am pretty knowledgeable about the needs packaging live fish.

I have received a fair amount of live fish and invertebrates shipped to my home. I have seen a variety of solutions (some very creative )to others that were packed like a pro.

Occasionally I have found myself cruising the internet for a good source on items that aren’t currently available and my place of business only to find that the sources are lacking at best.

So my questions are as follows:

- Do you have a target price in mind for shipping out live fish - not freight wise but materials wise?

- Do you feel like providing a customer a well packed box would increase their chance from ordering from you again?

- What are you feelings on Kordon Breather Bags (are these worth the price), do they actually work as advertised?

- Do you feel there is a distinct advantage to using a chest/lip lid shipper vs. cutting you own Styrofoam sheets to make walls in the box?

- Who do you currently use for packaging supplies?

- Is there any items you haven't been able to find that would make your life easier when shipping?

- Do you like to label your boxes with perishable, rush, live, do not freeze etc.?

- Do you use newsprint in you boxes to provide padding around the bagged animal?

- What is your time worth?

- What length of time heater packs do you use most often?

- Do you feel that adding extra fish to a shipment is a good way to insure that a "X" amount arrive to the customer alive?

- How many of you have had to deal with replacing product due to the lack of proper packaging? Was it because you did not have access to it?

- Do you feel that weather or the competence of the carrier company play more of a factor with your contents arriving alive?

As you may have gathered out of lack of options... I have decided to try to gather information from the community to see if setting up a site catered to our hobby's shipping needs would be worth my time or not. Your input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[mgamer20o0]

- Do you have a target price in mind for shipping out live fish - not freight wise but materials wise?

for me material wise it isnt much. there is a local place i get bags from. the big cost was the money for the o2 tank.

- Do you feel like providing a customer a well packed box would increase their chance from ordering from you again?

since i buy and sell stuff when i send items out i send it at least how i would want to get them. i pack for the worst hoping for the best.

- What are you feelings on Kordon Breather Bags (are these worth the price), do they actually work as advertised?

they do work. the thing with like inverts they really do put little co2 out. i dont even use o2 with them and never seem to have a problem. with fish o2 helps a lot. i personally dont like breather bags since i have had more pop/leak and just not work right. i rather be safe then sound using 2mm double bags.

- Do you feel there is a distinct advantage to using a chest/lip lid shipper vs. cutting you own Styrofoam sheets to make walls in the box?

cost vs reward. i do believe the boxes are better but you pay a lot for them. cutting your own foam for a 7x7x6 box works out to be about 50 cents and some time.

- Who do you currently use for packaging supplies?

i get my heat packs and bags local. boxes from usps. i buy the labels online and sytrofoam from home depot.

- Is there any items you haven't been able to find that would make your life easier when shipping?

i have a friend building me a hot wire cutter that should make my life easy. i have looked at several options and at some point i might try some of the higher tech pre made boxes. though they cost 2-3 each it really adds up. most people tend to want things to their door as cheap as possible.

- Do you like to label your boxes with perishable, rush, live, do not freeze etc.?

no i do not. the more it can blend in the faster i hope it will go.

- Do you use newsprint in you boxes to provide padding around the bagged animal?

yes or packing peanuts air bags what ever i have to make sure they make it safe.

- What is your time worth?

more then i get. i joke often to people i would make more money working for lowes or what ever. for me its more about getting more people into the hobby. mainly the planted hobby. there is a real lack of plants in most lfs and some of the big online retail for plants have bad reps. started by giving away my cuttings. its how i got started but i kept sinking more money into the hobby. started to sell them then had more and more people depending on me for plants. i finally had to break down and start buying large amounts to keep everyone happy. now my goal is to get more people into the hobby with great plants low prices and good customer service. i think if you ask all the online sellers most will tell you its a labor of love not a get rich.

- What length of time heater packs do you use most often?

shipping priority mail i use 72 hours and express 40 hours.

- Do you feel that adding extra fish to a shipment is a good way to insure that a "X" amount arrive to the customer alive?

for me it really depend on what i am sending. it sure makes the customer happy so i try to add extras when i can. which is most of the time.

- How many of you have had to deal with replacing product due to the lack of proper packaging? Was it because you did not have access to it?

1-2 prob. really most of the troubles come if you pack well is lag in the shipment or unreasonable customers. with the post office most packages show up with in 2-3 for priority. they dont count it as late until i think 14 days later. often its beyond my control. most people are cool i ask for them to pay shipping and ill replace the item. most know i did everything in my power. no mater what you sell when you deal with the public you will run into crazy people. its just bound to happen. you have a pic they can see exactly what it is but they think its different. in the last 2-3 years i have sold mostly on forums i have got 2-3 neg feedback. most sane people will look at it and say they are way off. it happens.

- Do you feel that weather or the competence of the carrier company play more of a factor with your contents arriving alive?

100% its the carrier. you can control the environment with heat and cold packs. you cant control the carrier playing football with your package. opps that package thats being mailed 2 hours away took 7 days.... opps next day really didnt take next day... the problem is 2 folds. most people really dont want to pay the extra shipping to get there fast or one of the better carriers. i cant blame them most of the time though.

there isnt one site out there catering to shippers. many people go to kensfish for supplies many people sell supplies on aquabid. key to have the best items at the lowest prices which isnt always easy. any other questions ill be happy to answer if i can.


also this was one long thread lol

 

[Diablos]

Well thanks for all the answers, yours have been the best and most detailed out of all the forums that I have placed this on. I sincerely appreciate it! I am going to follow them up with more about what I am trying to accomplish as well as more questions.

As you may have surmised I am currently working in the packaging industry and have been for about 3 years. I have been a fish hobbyist since I was a little kid. Recently as I have gotten older I have ordered more fish online and have noticed the lack of vendors for shipping supplies that cater to our hobby.

Thus I thought I may have an opportunity to fill this void. As I have access to all the necessary supplies and could provide them to the hobbyist at a reasonable price in small quantities. So now my real challenge is not trying to find the vendors for these suppliers, but a reasonable price level as well as learning a bit more about the shippers themselves.

So far I have learned…

- A large majority in the hobby is using the free USPS boxes.
- Unfortunately chests and lids are out of the question because of the cost.
- More people than I thought don’t actually like the kordon bags.

So here are some more questions:

What do you think your hard cost should be to pack out a box? (I am talking about the bags, the rubberbands, the tape, the styro liners & the heater pack.)

What are the most commonly used USPS box sizes that you use?

Would you prefer being able to get all your supplies from one spot?

Here is what I was thinking…

- After I receive a consensus on sizes I would have styro cut to fit 1 or 2 of the most popular size USPS boxes.
- I would like to offer several packages with enough suppliers to pack out maybe 3 boxes, 5 boxes & maybe 10 boxes.
- I would also offer the supplies by themselves in larger quantities.
- I would stock these supplies in order to provide quick shipping to the customer.
- I would offer everything to pack out these boxes and try to be a one stop shop for a hobbyist needs.
- This would all be available via the web with detail pictures and explanations of all the products.
- I would also provide a good write up on a proper packaging… a guide to shipping successfully so to speak.

Lets all be honest though I have to make a profit for me to be able to provide this service. So please be honest in what you think is a fair price to pack out a box. I can’t justify stopping my day to send out supplies to turn a $2 dollar profit per order. J

 

[Aquarium1]

I also have a few questions about shipping. Could you use a USPS box with another service (ie FedEx, UPS, etc.) or do you have to buy a different box from them?

Plus I looked on FedEx and it said:

"If approved by FedEx, we may accept non-venomous reptiles, amphibians, live/tropical fish and beneficial insects on an exception basis under the following conditions:
1. Shipments must be from a business to a business (from a breeder to a pet store, for example).
2. The shipper must have its packaging tested and pre-approved by FedEx Packaging Design and Development for the type of animal being shipped. Call 1.800.633.7019 for assistance. It is the responsibility of the shipper to adequately package shipments for all temperature extremes and handling conditions."

How do you ship through FedEx with this rule in place, particularly the business to business one?
Thanks.

 

[WhiteDevil]

- Do you have a target price in mind for shipping out live fish - not freight wise but materials wise?
USPS supplies my materials for free, styrofoam and stuffing I get from work free

- Do you feel like providing a customer a well packed box would increase their chance from ordering from you again?
100% customer satisfaction, I pack very well(used to ship antiques)

- What are you feelings on Kordon Breather Bags (are these worth the price), do they actually work as advertised?
I get my bags from petsmart

- Do you feel there is a distinct advantage to using a chest/lip lid shipper vs. cutting you own Styrofoam sheets to make walls in the box?
Nope

- Who do you currently use for packaging supplies?
USPS

- Is there any items you haven't been able to find that would make your life easier when shipping?
Not really

- Do you like to label your boxes with perishable, rush, live, do not freeze etc.?
Have to declare live animals,other then that no

- Do you use newsprint in you boxes to provide padding around the bagged animal?
Yes, it maintains rigidity unlike "popcorn"

- What is your time worth?
I sell to put back into the hobby,I have one F/T job dont need a 2nd

- What length of time heater packs do you use most often?
24 hour and completely seperate the heat pad(135-158 degrees Fahrenheit per pad, GRABBER made heat pads)

- Do you feel that adding extra fish to a shipment is a good way to insure that a "X" amount arrive to the customer alive?
Yes

- How many of you have had to deal with replacing product due to the lack of proper packaging? Was it because you did not have access to it?
None yet

- Do you feel that weather or the competence of the carrier company play more of a factor with your contents arriving alive?
Yes

 

[WhiteDevil]

As far as fedex

FedEx Live Animal Desk, gotta coordinate the shipment with them.

 

[Aquarium1]

As far as fedex

FedEx Live Animal Desk, gotta coordinate the shipment with them.

So you can still ship whether its business to business or not if you contact them?

 

[Diablos]

- Do you have a target price in mind for shipping out live fish - not freight wise but materials wise?
USPS supplies my materials for free, styrofoam and stuffing I get from work free

- Do you feel like providing a customer a well packed box would increase their chance from ordering from you again?
100% customer satisfaction, I pack very well(used to ship antiques)

- What are you feelings on Kordon Breather Bags (are these worth the price), do they actually work as advertised?
I get my bags from petsmart

- Do you feel there is a distinct advantage to using a chest/lip lid shipper vs. cutting you own Styrofoam sheets to make walls in the box?
Nope

- Who do you currently use for packaging supplies?
USPS

- Is there any items you haven't been able to find that would make your life easier when shipping?
Not really

- Do you like to label your boxes with perishable, rush, live, do not freeze etc.?
Have to declare live animals,other then that no

- Do you use newsprint in you boxes to provide padding around the bagged animal?
Yes, it maintains rigidity unlike "popcorn"

- What is your time worth?
I sell to put back into the hobby,I have one F/T job dont need a 2nd

- What length of time heater packs do you use most often?
24 hour and completely seperate the heat pad(135-158 degrees Fahrenheit per pad, GRABBER made heat pads)

- Do you feel that adding extra fish to a shipment is a good way to insure that a "X" amount arrive to the customer alive?
Yes

- How many of you have had to deal with replacing product due to the lack of proper packaging? Was it because you did not have access to it?
None yet

- Do you feel that weather or the competence of the carrier company play more of a factor with your contents arriving alive?
Yes

Though many of your answers are good... others are just ???

I don't want to know that you get your supplies for free. That adds nothing to the conversation I am trying to have here. Thanks for your willingness to share, but I am looking to have a dialogue not a one or two word answer.

The other person please make a seperate thread if you have questions about shipping your goods. That doesn't belong in this thread.

 

[mgamer20o0]

What do you think your hard cost should be to pack out a box? (I am talking about the bags, the rubberbands, the tape, the styro liners & the heater pack.)

i dont use rubberbands. on big fish people do use them just not me. as for heat packs they add up to 1/2 pound for 72 hours. i charge a base $7 shipping for 1 pound which pays for the shipping and all the extra supplies. for heat packs and foam i charge $2 which almost covers my costs. heat packs are 1.60 and the foam on smaller packages work out to 50 cents a box.

What are the most commonly used USPS box sizes that you use?

7x7x6 box and the medium flat rate lunch box size.

Would you prefer being able to get all your supplies from one spot?

many people would. if you are a casual shipper you would. though Kens Fish Home of Quality Fish Food, And Supplies At Excellent Prices. has everything you need. this is where i tell most people to go. when you are at it you get the benefit of adding his wonderful food. as for me i ship out 5-10 packages a week some times more and i look for the lowest price possible. i dont mind buying 2000 bags at once or a case of heat pack as long as it keeps my price down. since my whole thing is supplying the best product for the lowest price.

- After I receive a consensus on sizes I would have styro cut to fit 1 or 2 of the most popular size USPS boxes.
- I would like to offer several packages with enough suppliers to pack out maybe 3 boxes, 5 boxes & maybe 10 boxes.

i think you would get more casual shippers. people sending out a package or two a month. get a box of everything you need to ship from bags to heat packs to foam. most places that sell pre cut foam tends to run i think 2-3 a box. thats a lot to pass on to a already high shipping price. though i hate cuting foam worst thing in the world. i buy the sheets at home depot cutting them down making a mess. though i got someone to build me a hot wire cutter so it wont be as bad. its a cut throat world out there. i would try. you succeed with out trying.

I also have a few questions about shipping. Could you use a USPS box with another service (ie FedEx, UPS, etc.) or do you have to buy a different box from them?

no you cant. some give boxes but you have to use them with their service. some people scam them and try to get away with it. i think its even a fed crime to use the usps priority mail boxs with other services and even slow foams of shipping like parcel post.

How do you ship through FedEx with this rule in place, particularly the business to business one?
Thanks.

most just ship it anyways. the reasons why they do this is so they wont be responsible if they are DOA.

 

[Aquarium1]

O ok. That makes sense. Thanks. So, you don't even call the live animal help desk?

 

[WhiteDevil]

So what did you want to know then?

the meaning of life?

 

[Diablos]

Everything you need to ship 5 - 7x7x6 USPS Postal boxes.

- (5) Six peice sets of 3/4" Styrofoam

- (15) 6x12 1.5Mil Poly Bags

- (1) 1 Roll of 110Yd Clear Carton Tape

- (5) 70 Hr Heater Packs

- Enough Newsprint to seperate the heater packs from the bag & also take up any left over space in the interior of the box.

- Enough rubber bands to for the bags.

I think I can do this for $20 + Freight, and if you just need the styrofoam I can do it for $11.75 + Freight.

That breaks down to $4 + Freight (per box) for everything you need to ship. Is this an acceptable cost?

 

[mgamer20o0]

poly bags most people use 2mm or thicker 1.5 just too thin. depending on what you are shipping will dictate the bag size. i mostly use 4x16 2mm poly bags. i can fit 4 bags with heat pack in a 7x7x6 box. plus you double bag everything with water. depending on what they are shipping 20 min would be a better number. if shipping just plants maybe 10 would be fine.

i asked a couple people half said it seemed ok the other half said they would rather do it their self because they thought 4 was too much.