VHS (viral hemorrhagic septicemia)

[Andy Sager]

I believe i have a 40g breeder with two breeding pairs that have this disease. I have one right now showing all the sign and am treating with furan 2 because furan 2 because the furan 2 box says it should heal the sores.

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While Furan -2 is a great medication because it works against gram + and Gram - bacteria, it will have little to no effect on viral diseases. All it will do in this case is prevent the sores from getting bacterial infections but it won't stop the virus from creating more damage.
Ironically, last night I was in Miami with my old fish biz friends and we were discussing all the meds that are no longer available to the public. From the simple ( super-chlor) to the complex (Chloramphenichol) are all gone. Most of the best meds I've used over the years are on that list unfortunately. We now live in a different world where PREVENTION will save more lives than cures will. Proper tank environments, maintenance and tank mates are key for preventing problems. Use of a QT tank is strongly suggested to prevent any disease a new fish may be carrying from contaminating an entire display tank. Keep in mind, ALL fish, whether wild or tank raised , have been exposed to something. Sometimes it's menial, sometimes catastrophic. Even my buddy who breeds and raises fish on a farm in FL treats his fish when they come out of the pools. I saw some of the fish he was holding while medicating yesterday.....BEAUTIFUL, highly colored Rosy, Tiger and Albino Tiger barbs, Huge Albino Corys, Parrot fish ( even tho I am not a fan of this fish) with the most intense NATURAL coloring and African cichlids, some being lines he's worked for over 20 years (when I worked with his Dad), to make any hobbyist drool. ALL get medicated no matter how good they look.

Just a friendly FYI

 

[dragon14]

With this talk about VHS and other viral fish diseases that don't really have a cure, it makes one a little apprehensive about having fish.

While it's good that humans can't get it, the poor fish! And I hate to say it, but all the time and money put into the tanks and equipment and the fish too. And it could wipe out a tank!

What a horrible disease . I wish there were still medicines like this for fish. It sounds like it is needed for sure!!!

 

[dragon14]

MonkeyMonk86,

How long did you have your fish before this happened? Any idea how long the place you got them at had had them?

And did you alert them? Anything that was in the tank w the fish you had probably had it too

 

[Andy Sager]

While this is a more extreme disease, many things that fish do get can be cured or prevented with what's available today so not keeping fish because they MIGHT get something is a little extreme as well (IMO). Then again, if we took this approach as a main idea, we would also not keep any animal as pets ( have you seen a dog with heartworm or mange or a cat with distemper?) or have kids either. Kids are the worst at catching diseases yet we humans continue to have them. Just a funny example here. But many a successful tank has been and is being kept by following a few simple precautions.

 

[dragon14]

You're right Andy. I just tend to worry about things sometimes.... I need to work on that.

I find keeping fish a little overwhelming at the moment anyway (I am still new to it!) and then to hear about this disease, makes me go AHHHH.

It is a fun and rewarding thing to do, though, just like having other pets and/or kids...

 

[Andy Sager]

You're right Andy. I just tend to worry about things sometimes.... I need to work on that.

I find keeping fish a little overwhelming at the moment anyway (I am still new to it!) and then to hear about this disease, makes me go AHHHH.

It is a fun and rewarding thing to do, though, just like having other pets and/or kids...

For what it's worth, this is my 50th year keeping topical fish as a hobby. If it were really difficult, I would have gotten out of the hobby long ago. But besides the rewards of the peace and tranquility that fish keeping can bring, it's helped me learn so much about the ecology of the world, biology, animal husbandry, medicines, studying and responsibility. I started keeping fish when I was 7 years old ( you can do the math as to my age now ) and was a sponge at that age learning all I could to keep my "pets" alive. I highly recommend fish keeping to anyone wanting to learn anything about those fields.
Yes, it can be a little complex when you are new at it and YES you may lose a few fish in the process of learning but time and experience teaches you a lot so that you don;t lose more fish than you keep alive for a long time. The best teachers for fish keeping are those who have done it over a long period of time. They will have experienced more than just the trials of starting a tank. Learn from their mistakes so you hopefully don;t face the same results.
Feel free to PM me if you have any questions that others can't answer

 

[MonkeyMonk86]

Dragon14, to answer your question, LFS A, just got them in the day I bought them and all theirs must have died that night. 3 out of 4 died in 1st 24hrs. Thinking deaths were from shipping I added 4 more from LFS B. Of those 5 fish, the longest living was 18 days. 3 died and I euthanized 2.

I understand the fear of buying new fish. Since the sick julii, I have not purchased or filled in my fish that need to be schooled. I'm not shell shocked, but I am wiser, slower, & more well planned.

I have 2 fish in extended QT until Halloween (b/c I might have shared something between them and the VHS fish). I could bang my head 100 times and still not know if I shared a siphon and reverse pitcher or not.

The VHS taught me:
1. My own personal limitations. (run only 1 QT at a time.)
2. At a LFS to observe the entire tank and all fish b4 buying any fish from the tank.
3. To not buy newly received fish.
4. To only buy from a store using UV on their water column.
5. Not to buy fish on Fridays or Saturdays b/c if you need medicine you might not be able to get it.
6. To stock good medicines that you can't buy at LFSs at home ( e.g. Kanaplex)
7. If any " vibes" something is not right at the LFS, then walk away b/c your subconscious is probably sensing something amiss with the tank or the fish.


(Friend of Bill W., One day at a time)

 

[Andy Sager]

There is a thread on this site about when to buy fish at a fish store. To summerize, the best day to buy fish is the DAY BEFORE a new shipment comes in. You may not get the biggest selection but you will get fish that have already been in the store's tanks for a week ( at least) so if they had any issues from shipping or delivery, they would have already shown it. You still need to be mindful of the fish's condition as just because the fish has been there a week does not mean it's the healthiest specimen but the odds go way up that they are in good shape by being there that long and looking as good as they do.

Hope this helps

 

[MonkeyMonk86]

Andy, 100% agree on that!


(Friend of Bill W., One day at a time)

 

[Delapool]

Like that as well. I'll usually trot around a few lfs (see for any specials as well) and then next weekend will get the fish. Any excuse really

 

[dragon14]

@Andy
Thank you! I surely will keep you in mind if I have any questions!

I hadn't read that thread about when to get fish before I got the fish... our pygmy catfish we bought the day they came in. We got 2 more three days later... they seem ok so far and we have been quarantining them from the start. Treating with melafix and pimafix (half doses since they are catfish) for a week as a preventative.

Also there was a dead fish in the tank with them when we got them. Both times. (We got 5 then three days later 2 more). The pet store guy didn't really seem to care.... :/ But anyway.

They seem to be doing great! I love them.

 

[dragon14]

@MonkeyMonk

Thank you for the reply. Again, I am sorry about your fish Sounds like the disease is pretty rapid to show up and then cause death then huh?

I have no idea if they use UV on the water column. I should ask next time I am there. Was is a water column?

"6. To stock good medicines that you can't buy at LFSs at home ( e.g. Kanaplex)"
What is Kanaplex? Where else would one get fish medicine other than online if not at the lfs?

I have two lfs's. Well three, we've only been to that one once. They had a small aquarium area. Some of their tanks looked a bit crowded. But. I think one of the crowded one was feeder goldfish. But still. :/

So 3 lfs, a PetCo, and WalMart. WM has a very small fish selection. PetCo is a bit far for me to go on any sort of regular basis though, but that's where we got our bettas first home, the 10g kit, most of our tank decor, and a few other things. And that's where I got my betta. We weren't even going to get a fish that day, just a tank, but, I saw him and fell in love with him

 

[Andy Sager]

What you have to keep in mind is that fish do die and not always because they are unhealthy. Some are genetically predisposed to a shortened lifespan. Some get stuck in the bag by the other fish and don;t recover from the injury. Some may be getting towards the natural end of their lives. I believe I delivered the best possible fish my customers could get from a wholesaler and while rare, I too had dead fish found in a bag of fish I was delivering.....And I picked the fish!!! So it does happen. This is why I say, by waiting, you usually get a healthier specimen because it has made the transfer and had time to rest between acclimations ( another reason why you don;t want to buy fish that have just arrived and been put into a tank.)
But even taking all that into account, the fish can be a carrier of diseases while not effected by them. By using a QT tank, it helps contain anything the fish is carrying.

It's just a better way of protecting your investment in the main tank.

 

[dragon14]

Thank you for that information!

The second time, the fish was caught in some grassy/mossy stuff. I dunno if maybe it strangled Poor thing. This was a tak with some guppies, guppy fry, and some kind of larger catfish or algae eater, as well as the pygmy catfish.

One reason we got them right away when we saw them was because they got 20 in that day, and I had no idea how often they got them in or what and we didnt' want to risk waiting and then not be able to get any at all. Also we figured if we got them right away, minimal exposure to anything that may be in the tank I think it is definitely a good idea to wait though.

I hope that with the medicines and quarantining them for almost 2 weeks, that will nab anything or they will show anything by then. They are behaving fine and eating well and don't seem sick. I don't really want to wait 4 weeks but I know that is generally the recommendation.

 

[MonkeyMonk86]

Dragon, the totality of all aquarium water that has the ability to be in a particular tank is called a water column. For instance most LFS have all tanks on each wall using the same filter. So that whole wall of tanks is sharing the same water column. Thus, if tank A, B, C, D are all on same water column sick dead fish in tank A can cause sick dead fish in B,C,& D.


(Friend of Bill W., One day at a time)

 

[dragon14]

Gotcha, makes sense. Not sure what kind mine uses.... I could ask... Not getting any more fish for a while, though.

 

[MonkeyMonk86]

For a quick easy QT tank look at your dollar store or a cheap plastic "pet keeper" that has a lid. http://m.petco.com/product/12031/Pe...aspx?Ntt=Pet keeper large&OneResultRedirect=1
The large one is 3 gallons.

The pet keeper is perfect for the 1st 2 weeks of QT b/c you can see the fish from every angle, water change is fast & easy. Medications easy. The jumpers don't get out. ( it also makes a great hospital tank.)

Then for weeks 3-6 you can put them in a 5.5 gallon with a lid and some deco and or plants.


(Friend of Bill W., One day at a time)

 

[dragon14]

Thanks . We have a 5g for now.

But I will most certainly keep this information in mind

 

[Matt68005]

This can also be caused by Psuedomonas and Aeromonas bacterial infections, the best drug for this is Terramycin, Oxytetracycline. I don't know about virus's in fish except for koi herpes, but ya, Septima (blood poisining) i think is more common than people realize and well, just use the Terramycin and hope you don't destroy your fish's liver before you eridacte the disease. I don't think alot of virus's kill their host like bacteria do, so thats a good thing. Sorry if i sound misinformed, im being very general, i only skimmed this thread.

 

[Matt68005]

DailyMed - TERRAMYCIN 200 FOR FISH- oxytetracycline hydrochloride powder 
Click on dose and administration
There is no way were gonna get a anti-viral for fish, so this is your best shot whoever did the Original POST, you can buy this stuff from here Ken's Premium Sinking Pellets with Oxytetracycline 2.5mm
And it works, very much works, against all 3 deadly Gram negative bacteria that cause disease in freshwater fish, you can feed from 6-10 days 3X a day and it will absolutely work for Psudeomonas, aeromonas, bacterial septima caused by the former two bacteria, and Flexibacteria Columnaris.