What the heck is this- graphic photo warning

[brennae]

Alrighty search for anything containing kanamycin was futile. Thanks Andy in did look up the other names for kanamycin and I checked the ingredients in every fish med I saw to make sure it wasn't in there. I worked at a pharmacy for 6 years so I am familiar with some of the fish drugs or at least the drug families.
So I will call my vet on Monday and ask of she has any in stock and of not could she call in an rx to the compounding pharmacy. They would be the next most likely candidate. Just in case I will order a small amount this evening if I can find some that's not $70.
As far as microscope use, I have used them before and I've dissected a few animals in my day. I think if I had a fish pathology textbook I could figure out what to look for. Yeah most places just do not have a ton of fish meds besides the ich meds. I picked up a couple things for my fish medicine chest just to have on hand if I ever need them.
So when I call my vet I'm going to ask if anyone there can diagnose a fish disease under the microscope. My family has just about put her oldest son thru pharmacy school with all of our rescues and disabled animals so I am confident that of any of the vets has any experience with fish that they would do that for me. I do have a friend in VA who has a master's in ichthyology and works at Marineland. Not sure if he has a microscope he can access or if it's feasible to euth a fish and mail it to him without spending more money than the fish are even worth.

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[brennae]

So, I'm not running out and buying even a cheap microscope because that's a lot of money but it is something I am keeping in the back of my mind if I stick with fish for a few years. If anyone knows of a freshwater fish disease textbook please let me know so I can see if I can afford to order one.
ANDY or CORALBANDIT do either of you have a dosing schedule you recommend for the kanamycin? When I call the vet I need to figure out how many capsules I will need depending on the strength it comes in etc. I also need to figure out if 1 tiny bottle that I can buy of Seachem's product will be enough. If there is a better brand online than Seachem please let me know. I will continue reading up now that I've returned home for the evening.

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[Andy Sager]

Alrighty search for anything containing kanamycin was futile. Thanks Andy in did look up the other names for kanamycin and I checked the ingredients in every fish med I saw to make sure it wasn't in there. I worked at a pharmacy for 6 years so I am familiar with some of the fish drugs or at least the drug families.
So I will call my vet on Monday and ask of she has any in stock and of not could she call in an rx to the compounding pharmacy. They would be the next most likely candidate. Just in case I will order a small amount this evening if I can find some that's not $70.
As far as microscope use, I have used them before and I've dissected a few animals in my day. I think if I had a fish pathology textbook I could figure out what to look for. Yeah most places just do not have a ton of fish meds besides the ich meds. I picked up a couple things for my fish medicine chest just to have on hand if I ever need them.
So when I call my vet I'm going to ask if anyone there can diagnose a fish disease under the microscope. My family has just about put her oldest son thru pharmacy school with all of our rescues and disabled animals so I am confident that of any of the vets has any experience with fish that they would do that for me. I do have a friend in VA who has a master's in ichthyology and works at Marineland. Not sure if he has a microscope he can access or if it's feasible to euth a fish and mail it to him without spending more money than the fish are even worth.

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Good to know you have a bit of background. You never know
Yeah, I was shocked when I heard what I COULDN'T get anymore. Most were the best meds on the market of course. I can't begin to tell you haw many expensive ( and I mean very expensive) fish Chloramphencol saved for me. Oh well. You can't go back ( so they say. )

What I did learn about diseases is that sometimes, you are better off doing everything possible to know what you are/were dealing with just so that you can avoid it the next time. For example, ICH is the same if it is on a feeder guppy or a prized Discus. Is it worth it to spend the money to have the Guppy diagnosed rather than waiting for it to happen to the Discus? Only you can answer that. But ICH is just an example. What if it were Lymphocystis, or Columnaris or velvet? Being able to say " I've seen that before and this is how to treat it" may just save some expensive guppy or other fish someday.

I recently picked up an old book on fish diseases you may want to have in your library. It's called "Handbook of Fish Diseases, by Untergasser & Dieter.
It's a good book for diagnosing problems. A "If this then go there" kind of method which is a great way of diagnosing things you didn't even know the fish had. I highly recommend it ( if that means anything. )

Hope the vet has some good news for ya.

 

[coralbandit]

Dosing for seachem kana is as follows;
Directions: Use 1 level spoonful (180 mg) for every 20 L (5 gallons). Repeat every 2 days as required up to a maximum of 3 doses

This from
Seachem KanaPlex | Fish Bacteria & Fungus Medications
under 'more information'.

 

[Andy Sager]

So, I'm not running out and buying even a cheap microscope because that's a lot of money but it is something I am keeping in the back of my mind if I stick with fish for a few years. If anyone knows of a freshwater fish disease textbook please let me know so I can see if I can afford to order one.
ANDY or CORALBANDIT do either of you have a dosing schedule you recommend for the kanamycin? When I call the vet I need to figure out how many capsules I will need depending on the strength it comes in etc. I also need to figure out if 1 tiny bottle that I can buy of Seachem's product will be enough. If there is a better brand online than Seachem please let me know. I will continue reading up now that I've returned home for the evening.

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Kanaplex is 40% Kanamycin sulfate and 60% Potassium sulfate. Dosage is 180 mg/ 5 gal water. Repeat dose ever 48 hours up to 3 times. No UV, Ozone or chemical filtration.

Hope this helps

 

[brennae]

Ok that helps me a lot. I could have Googled that on my own but I just didn't get there yet and was curious if what I would find on Google is what either of you recommend.

Andy-- I see your point about the spending the $70 on cheap fish. I really didn't think about it that way and I think you are right. And I will probably need it in the future anyway. I really dropped the ball with this. I wasn't feeling well and just ignored most things and if I want to be successful I need to soldier through.

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[Andy Sager]

Ok that helps me a lot. I could have Googled that on my own but I just didn't get there yet and was curious if what I would find on Google is what either of you recommend.

Andy-- I see your point about the spending the $70 on cheap fish. I really didn't think about it that way and I think you are right. And I will probably need it in the future anyway. I really dropped the ball with this. I wasn't feeling well and just ignored most things and if I want to be successful I need to soldier through.

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Hold on there!!!! I didn't recommend anything medicinal. ( did I? ) I just gave you the ingredients and the dosage. Considering that you don't know what you are dealing with, Kanamycin may not even be the best course of action.
This goes back to what I was talking about before. I actually had a sensitivity kit in the store that I ran cultures with to determine the best course of action for any sick fish. Today, you would have to have your vet run these. If this was Lymph, none of the antibiotics should work as that is viral. If it's parasitic, Kanamycin shouldn't work either as it's an antibiotic not antiparasitic. If it's a gram + bacteria, there are better choices than Kanamycin as that is mainly for gram- bacteria. This is why proper diagnosing is so important. If it's bacterial & external, Furan -2 is my go to med because it works on both gram + & gram- bacteria. If it's internal, then I go to Kanamycin or Minocycline or Metronidazole. It's all situational.

As for the other thing, yeah, I try to use extreme examples just to make the point. With experience comes quicker reactions. I feel for you on the sick part. Been there for the past 3 weeks myself but knew that I had to work the hatchery, even if it were a little, because the fish don't care that you are sick. They want clean water and food. Don't worry, you'll get there eventually.
Feel better

 

[brennae]

Hold on there!!!! I didn't recommend anything medicinal. ( did I? ) I just gave you the ingredients and the dosage. Considering that you don't know what you are dealing with, Kanamycin may not even be the best course of action.
This goes back to what I was talking about before. I actually had a sensitivity kit in the store that I ran cultures with to determine the best course of action for any sick fish. Today, you would have to have your vet run these. If this was Lymph, none of the antibiotics should work as that is viral. If it's parasitic, Kanamycin shouldn't work either as it's an antibiotic not antiparasitic. If it's a gram + bacteria, there are better choices than Kanamycin as that is mainly for gram- bacteria. This is why proper diagnosing is so important. If it's bacterial & external, Furan -2 is my go to med because it works on both gram + & gram- bacteria. If it's internal, then I go to Kanamycin or Minocycline or Metronidazole. It's all situational.

As for the other thing, yeah, I try to use extreme examples just to make the point. With experience comes quicker reactions. I feel for you on the sick part. Been there for the past 3 weeks myself but knew that I had to work the hatchery, even if it were a little, because the fish don't care that you are sick. They want clean water and food. Don't worry, you'll get there eventually.
Feel better

I did try Furan in 3 doses now. Two when I thought it was ich and once the other day when I added salt and turned off the heat. Malachite green was also involved. I figured adding Kanamycin wouldn't hurt at this point. I'll see what the vet says. I'm wondering if they have a lab they can send a fish to? Do such places exist? Ok. I'm going to go cook some dinner and then do some heavy reading on fish diseases. If I'm lucky there's a text book on Amazon on kindle format so I can look at it right away.

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[brennae]

Geez, quite brutal. I have nothing to add but am along to learn. I haven't seen any mention of parameters lately, are they in check?

Didn't see this until now. It's an established tank so I don't check it. I'm going to do pwcs tonight or tomorrow morning and then wait a but and run the liquid tests. I really think water condition has a lot to do with this. I was away for 6 weeks and I am sure they were very over fed during that time. How often the water was changed I have no idea. When I returned home the tank was very overcrowded. Pwcs have since been done. Due to the meds in the water and the use of Marineland hobs ( I dislike these) there is currently not a filter running but there is an airstone. No heat either in several days and the tank Temp is on low 70s as that has been the ambient basement temp.

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[brennae]

I also don't remember if I mentioned that 3 new fish got added without qt. A rubber lip pleco and some platys or mollies I have forgotten which. They didn't make it.

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[nytenoir]

Ken's fish has kanaplex reasonably priced
http://www.kensfish.com/cgi-kensfis...786&ss_parm=A04fbb28cb804005f277c5fd7648abb3e

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[brennae]

Thank you. I will put a good sized order in soon to build up my fish medicine cabinet. I'm really going to make some calls Monday and see if I can get a fish analyzed somewhere so I know for sure what I'm dealing with.

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[brennae]

I just took the plunge and ordered a text book called "Fish Disease: Diagnosis and Treatment" after looking at a few books in decided on this one because it was written. Fairly recently and has good reviews. Cheapest I could find it anywhere was Amazon Kindle version. It wasn't cheap as textbooks never are. I'm assuming it's still being taught because usually after schools stop using a text the prices drop dramatically. Average time to read 23+ hours so I won't be tackling it all at once. Lol

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[Delapool]

I just took the plunge and ordered a text book called "Fish Disease: Diagnosis and Treatment" after looking at a few books in decided on this one because it was written. Fairly recently and has good reviews. Cheapest I could find it anywhere was Amazon Kindle version. It wasn't cheap as textbooks never are. I'm assuming it's still being taught because usually after schools stop using a text the prices drop dramatically. Average time to read 23+ hours so I won't be tackling it all at once. Lol

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Yikes, I looked it up quickly and saw the price. I'd be interested in your review or PM on how useful you find the book. The library here stocks a few aquarium books in setting up and fish species types but nothing in detail like that. So I've considered getting a book like this but have always wondered if it is more for vets with microscopes, etc compared to a layperson like myself.

 

[brennae]

My library has nothing close and the universities I am near don't deal with animals etc. I really haven't gotten too far with it yet. I was napping. Lol. It does appear very technical. I wanted technical and I really do better with books than I do with surfing the net.

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[brennae]

So I talked to the vet office. The vet teaching hospital can analyze a fish and water sample for $130 if I drive it there which is 1.5 hours away. If my vet sends the sample it will be maybe $180 because of packaging on ice etc. Soonest I can take the sample there is next week due to not being well enough to drive that far right now.

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[brennae]

As for the text book, I'm still reading about how to prepare slides etc. I'm a bit disappointed in the text. I can't seem to find what I'm looking for yet.

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[Delapool]

Not much detail in text or too much?

 

[brennae]

There's a lot on preparing slides and samples and cultures. Maybe I haven't gotten far enough but not much on diagnosis with the naked eye via symptoms.

I think Mr. Betta who's pic I posted on here with the giant growth will no longer be around soon. He's been declining the last few days.

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[Delapool]

Just wondering on the growth on the betta if it is around the anal area? Was going to have a look at mine tonight as growth is unfamiliar to me. Strange spot.

Also is the growth on the outside or under the scales or deeper within the body? Did it start anywhere in particular and has it always had the same growth rate (think it was faster under high temps)?

Last one was which meds and duration did you try at normal temp? Meds that may have helped might have been negated at high temps.

Edit - I think a good book for me would be with pics of problems. I'm just a layperson so guess I just mainly want help identifying stuff. From memory the book said it had lots of pics?