36G startup - Fishless Cycling

[j2112j]

I have recently started a 36 gallon fishless cycle and thought I would keep a journal of the process. I am about 4 weeks into it and would like to add the journal here, for anyone interested.

It may be too detailed here, I hope you find it interesting rther than boring
I'll start with some info and follow up in a 2nd post.

Fishless Cycle journal
Some general info
--------------------------------------------------
I have only 1 LFS nearby where I plan to get livestock from. It is a small
independant shop with very good looking tanks and competitive pricing.
They only have 20 or so tanks but carry the most common FW fish and plants.
No rediculous fish that will outgrow the average home aquarium.
Other stores are Petsmart and BigAl's but too far to be bringing home livestock.
I decided on the type of fish I liked and tried to choose an appropriate setup,
without spending too much (under $200) for equipment.
Plan to add...
- 6-8 barbs (a mix of Tiger, Green and black ruby)
- 6-8 Harlequin Rasbora
- 4 panda corydora
Undecided about the tigers, depends on black ruby availability.
I am well aware of concerns with tiger barb fin nipping and still trying
to figure out if the 3 types will mix well and meet the schooling requirement.
If I'm still uncertain after cycling I'll forget about the tigers and use 8
greens/black rubies, and see how it goes.
Aqueon 36 Bowfront kit ($160 Petsmart)
- 36 Gallon (30x15x21)
- Aqueon QuietFlow 30 HOB (200 Gph)
- Aqueon 200watt submersible heater
- Aqueon Single strip T8 17watt Flourecent
(wish I had researched plants first)
- Fishfood samples
- water conditioner sample
Topfin 4000 Air Pump up to 80 gallons (using 3 airstones)
API Freshwater Master Test Kit ($40 BigAl's)
pwc = 2 gallon bucket with 5ml Nutrafin AquaPlus
Aqueon QuietFlow 30 filter uses cartridges (Mechanical/Chemical)
The cartridge slides into a 'bio-holster' (bio filtration)
Aquaclear 50 using sponge & bio-max only (Mechanical/Biological)
(Not using carbon insert during cycle)
Each filter claims 200 GPH (probablly lower when filled with media)
Filled tank with treated water on March 1st - Ph 8.2
Took about 1 week for water to clear.

 

[j2112j]

Fishless cycle journal

After lot's of reading online, began cycle on March 16th...
Ammonia brand is 'Old Country' ($2.99 Home Hardware)
March 16 - Ph 8.0
- Added 20ml ammonia - 4.0ppm
March 21 - Ammonia 3.5 ppm
March 22 - Raised temp from 78F to 82F
March 24 - Ammonia 2.5 ppm
March 26 * Added 1 piece 2 lb mopani wood ($9.99 LFS)
- Ph 8.0
- Ammonia 2.4 ppm
- nitrIte 0.0 ppm
Water had been cloudy at times (bacteria blooms?).
Smelled quite terrible so I decided to increase filtration
with a additional HOB filter I had seen on clearance.
March 29 - Ammonia 3.0 ppm ?
* Added Aquaclear 50 HOB ($26 LFS)
March 30 - Ph 7.8
- Ammonia 2.5 ppm
April 02 * Added 2nd piece 1.5 lb mopani wood ($6.99 BigAl's).
* Removed 20 lbs Marina black gravel
replaced with 25 lbs CaribSea Instant Aquarium
Tahition Moon substrate
- Ammonia 3.0 ppm
- nitrIte 0.0 ppm
--------------------------------------------------
About the caribsea Instant Aquarium product line...
This substrate is packed in water claiming to contain beneficial bacteria.
I first added a 10 lb bag. I ignored the instructions having read
that it clouds the water with oily film, so I rinsed it many times before adding.
A few days later I added about 15 lbs of a 20 lb bag, not rinsing
this time. I noticed a terrible smell from the open bag and the water it was
packed in was brownish colour, very different from the 1st 10 lb bag I used.

Instructions are to add the water from the bag as well as the conditoners
supplied in little ketchup like packets. I did this and turned out the
smell and brownish colour was due to one of the packets having leaked into the bag.
I chose the Instant Aquarium line only because I could not find the SuperNaturals line,
which is not packed in water.
I paid about $45 for the 30 lbs of caribsea substrate (BigAl's).
The Marina brand (25lbs) was about $27. (Petsmart).
I far prefer the look of the tahition moon and don't have any problems
with the HOB's. The intake tubes are roughly 4 to 5 inches above the sand.
I have used a teracotta saucer, split in half and painted black (liquitex acrylic),
drilled with holes and turned up side down to create a flat raised surface.
The saucers are packed with the marina gravel, fitted with air stones and then covered
with the sand (approx 1/2 inch).
I also bought 2 slate tiles ($6 at Rona). Broke these up and used 1 to create a retainer wall,
about 1.5 inches tall. The other tile was used to make a cave
(using GE 1 silicone), and sits on the retainer wall.
--------------------------------------------------
April 04 - Ammonia 3.0 ppm
April 05 - Ammonia 2 to 3 ppm
The ammonia levels hadn't really changed much for close to a week
(End of March through the 1st week of April) and I had yet to see
any nitrIte readings. I read online and figured I would start adding
a small amount of fish food.
April 07 - Ammonia 2.0 ppm
- nitrIte 0.0 ppm
* Added flake fish food (daily from here on)
April 08 - Added 10ml Ammonia - 4.0 ppm
* Note
Went to the lfs to ask about plants and fish. The guy I spoke with said in his 50 years he had never heard of a fishless cycle. He didn't really like the idea of adding ammonia or a food source and didn't understand how the cycle could begin this way.
He said he always just uses 2 goldfish and a cycle booster (bacteria in a bottle), then returns the fish.
I have been under the impression that water contains the bacteria naturally, and the addition of the ammonia activates it. Please correct me if this is not the case ?
He was interested in the idea and asked me to let him know how it works out.

April 09 - Ammonia 4.0 ppm
- nitrIte 0.25 ppm
April 11 * Attached baseball size java moss ($3.99 LFS) to mopani wood
* Added 75ml Nutrafin cycle (getting impatient lol)
- Ammonia 4.0 ppm
- nitrIte 0.50 ppm
Registered to AquariumAdvice.com
April 12 * 2 gallon water change
* Rinsed Filters in Aquarium water from pwc
( lots of sludge from substrate )
* Added 25ml Nutrafin cycle
- Ph 8.0
- Ammonia 4.0ppm
- nitrIte 1.0ppm
Another note...
The Aqueon filter has a safety feature which bypasses the media if the media becomes over saturated or clogged. It prevents the filter box from overflowing but the bypass doesn't carry the water through the bio-holster where most of the bulk of the bacteria is supposed to colonize (according to Aqueon).

will follow up...

 

[j2112j]

April 13 - Ammonia hasn't changed for a few days but other parameters are rising ?
- Ph 8.0
- Ammonia 4.0
- nitrItes 4.0
- nitrAtes 10 to 20

A few images...

Recycling an old stereo cabinet for use as a aquarium stand...

...

...

Even the aquarium kit box has other uses lol

lol... no fish yet but still she knows
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg109/HFOsirisReborn/Aquarium/Aquarium_005.jpg
Still need a background

April 12 water parameters

 

[eco23]

Check out the link in my signature, it might be time for a pwc.

 

[EndlersEatGuppies]

Welcome to AA

A 50% pwc should do a nice help.

 

[j2112j]

Thanks for the replies\suggestions.
Did a 50% water change and parameters dropped roughly by half.
Ph 8.0
Ammonia 2.0
NitrItes 0.50
NitrAtes 5.0

Will test again in 24 hours.

 

[mommytron]

I have been under the impression that water contains the bacteria naturally, and the addition of the ammonia activates it. Please correct me if this is not the case ?
He was interested in the idea and asked me to let him know how it works out.

yup. the bacteria occurs naturally (not sure if it's in the water or in the air), ammonia is just it's food source. why use a fish to produce the ammonia when you can add pure ammonia yourself.

would love to see pics, i love the look of tahitian moon sand. that's too bad about your lighting, it'd be tough to get away with much of anything with only 17w. double that and you'd have a nice big selection of live plants.

 

[j2112j]

mommytron, ty for those comments. I'm glad I switched substrate although my filter sponge was absolutely saturated with the oily residue. It's all good now after rinsing in aquarium water and the sand is now clean.

I may upgrade the lighting one day but it's been impossible to find a lfs selling the Aqueon glass lid for the 36 bow. (not willing to pay crazy shipping prices from online retailers).

I'll add a full tank pic closer to when I ask about stocking suggestions

24 hours after 50% water change...
Ammonia 2.0 (even seems it went up to maybe 2.2)
nitrIte 0.5 (no change)
nitrAte 5.0 (no change)

Will check again in 12 hours (noon e.s.t)

 

[EndlersEatGuppies]

Time for another %50 PWC

 

[fddlss]

Make sure that when your Ammonia drops to 0 PPM you ad enough ammonia to raise it to only about 1 PPM, just to feed the bacteria while you don't have fish. The link in my signature is a great guide.

 

[EndlersEatGuppies]

Make sure that when your Ammonia drops to 0 PPM you ad enough ammonia to raise it to only about 1 PPM, just to feed the bacteria while you don't have fish. The link in my signature is a great guide.

i would recommend just putting in a few fish flakes every other day till u get fish and not using the liquid ammonia.

 

[mommytron]

Time for another %50 PWC

why do you guys keep recommending PWC's?? it's not necessary during a fishless cycle unless parameters sky-rocket (ammonia>5.0ppm, nitrate>40ppm) if he keeps doing PWC's it's going to keep slowing down the bacteria from multiplying by cutting their food sources (ammonia & nitrite).

do NOT use fish food, that is just asking for trouble. stick with the liquid ammonia, and once it drops to <1ppm, dose it back up to 4. when you see it drop from a full dose to 0ppm within 24 hours (and also 0ppm nitrites) you are cycled.

 

[EndlersEatGuppies]

why do you guys keep recommending PWC's?? it's not necessary during a fishless cycle unless parameters sky-rocket (ammonia>5.0ppm, nitrate>40ppm) if he keeps doing PWC's it's going to keep slowing down the bacteria from multiplying by cutting their food sources (ammonia & nitrite).

do NOT use fish food, that is just asking for trouble. stick with the liquid ammonia, and once it drops to <1ppm, dose it back up to 4. when you see it drop from a full dose to 0ppm within 24 hours (and also 0ppm nitrites) you are cycled.

When you do PWC'S it drops the ammonia, nitrite, etc's down.


GET OUT OF MY HOUSE
LOL

 

[mommytron]

When you do PWC'S it drops the ammonia, nitrite, etc's down.


GET OUT OF MY HOUSE
LOL

please read my post again. by reducing the ammonia and nitrites it's taking away the bacteria's food source. this will only slow down your fishless cycle. like i said in my previous post, the only time it is necessary is when parameters are out of control (ammonia above 5ppm or nitrate above 40ppm)

 

[j2112j]

paramaters update

I appreciate the suggestions. I was more just confused by the ammonia levels not dropping. Could easily be from my messing with the substrate and rinsing filters, .... or could be gremlins, who knows
Haven't added fish flakes or ammonia since water change and don't plan to until I see some drops in readings.

Last test was about 56 hours since 50% pwc and numbers are...

Ammonia 2.0
nitrIte 5.0 + (like serious 80's flourecent purple/pink lipstick) lol
nitrAte 10 to 20

I'll just continue testing and get busy with other things.

Thanks again.

 

[j2112j]

DIY Slate Caves

Here are a few pics of one of the slate caves I made.

 

[EndlersEatGuppies]

looks awesome

 

[mommytron]

I appreciate the suggestions. I was more just confused by the ammonia levels not dropping. Could easily be from my messing with the substrate and rinsing filters, .... or could be gremlins, who knows
Haven't added fish flakes or ammonia since water change and don't plan to until I see some drops in readings.

Last test was about 56 hours since 50% pwc and numbers are...

Ammonia 2.0
nitrIte 5.0 + (like serious 80's flourecent purple/pink lipstick) lol
nitrAte 10 to 20

I'll just continue testing and get busy with other things.

Thanks again.

you may want to read up some more on fishless cycling. you seem incredibly confused, i think you may have been misinformed somewhere along the line.

if you are using pure ammonia, there is NO REASON to use fish food. all it will do is dirty your water and make a huge mess, and will inconsistently release ammonia (due to rotting) and could really throw things off balance. no more fish food!!!!

also, it takes weeks for a tank to cycle. do not be discouraged.

rinsing filters???? why are you doing this and how are you doing it?? if yo are rinsing the media or cartridge in tap water, it will kill any and all bacteria you have built up. DO NOT TOUCH the filter while cycling!!!! if you feel like you absolutely have to clean it, rinse it in some old tank water, NEVER under tap water.

and stop doing PWC's unless your readings are out of control. your tank will NEVER cycle!!! you need to just let it be for a while and let the bacteria do it's thing. if you keep taking away ammonia and nitrites, a big enough colony will never be able to build up, because you keep removing it's food source.


PS: also, sweet cave!! nicely done

 

[j2112j]

update

you may want to read up some more on fishless cycling. you seem incredibly confused, i think you may have been misinformed somewhere along the line.

if you are using pure ammonia, there is NO REASON to use fish food. all it will do is dirty your water and make a huge mess, and will inconsistently release ammonia (due to rotting) and could really throw things off balance. no more fish food!!!!

also, it takes weeks for a tank to cycle. do not be discouraged.

rinsing filters???? why are you doing this and how are you doing it?? if yo are rinsing the media or cartridge in tap water, it will kill any and all bacteria you have built up. DO NOT TOUCH the filter while cycling!!!! if you feel like you absolutely have to clean it, rinse it in some old tank water, NEVER under tap water.

and stop doing PWC's unless your readings are out of control. your tank will NEVER cycle!!! you need to just let it be for a while and let the bacteria do it's thing. if you keep taking away ammonia and nitrites, a big enough colony will never be able to build up, because you keep removing it's food source.


PS: also, sweet cave!! nicely done

I added fish food because the cycle seemed to have stalled 3 weeks into cycle ( 1 week with no change in ammonia ). That seemed to kick the cycle into nitrIte production. I had read the fish food contained other elements the cycle needed (phospahtes), that may not be present in my tap water ?

I've since stopped adding food (April 14).

I rinsed the filter in aquarium water because it was plugged up with the oily sludge from the new tahition moon substrate. No water was passing through the filter media so it had to be done.
The Aqueon filter media cartridge (mesh bag filled with carbon) slides into a 'bio-holster'. The bio-holster is supposed to be the surface area where most of the bacteria colonizes, not the filter bag... Either way I had to rinse the media bag.
I did not touch the Aquaclear media (bio-max and sponge).

The water changes were due to 5+ nitrIte. It's off the chart and I was hoping to bring it down to readable range.

Update on parameters...
April 17
90 hours after 50 % pwc
Ammonia 2.0
nitrIte 5+
nitrAte 20 to 40
(nitrAtes are rising but ammonia does not change, nitrItes may be so high that even 50% pwc doesn't bring into readable range).

So, I did a 25% pwc (last time I'm touching anything for 1 week).
April 18 (24 hours after pwc...)
Ammonia 2.0
nitrIte 5+
nitrAte 20 to 30

I have not added anything to the water since the 50 % change on April 14, so the ammonia reading is odd to me (.5 out of the tap).
It seems the nitrItes are being converted to nitrAtes, but it's difficult to understand why the ammonia stays at 2 ppm, even after these pwc's.
I tested ammonia with both API master kit and Nutarfin ammonia kit.

Let me just clarify...
Cycle began March 16th.
2 weeks in ammonia 4ppm began to drop but stuck at 2 for 1 week, no nitrItes or nitrAtes.
So 3 weeks in added some fish food, nitrItes began to appear.

Now into the 5th week, nitrIte > nitrAte seems to be working, but ammonia hasn't changed for 2 weeks.

The 50% change was to get nitrIte into test range, and also to see what was going on with ammonia readings, and still they are at 2ppm.

I'll let it it sit till saturday the 23rd and check back here with updates.

And thanks for the replies.

 

[mommytron]

fish food does contain a few trace nutrients that you want in the water column, but it's not necessary to keep adding it. just sprinkle in a little at the start of the cycle and leave it at that. i suppose if you are doing PWC's like crazy you would have to keep adding it back in, but PWC's shouldn't be being performed during a fishless cycle all that much. you sound like you are right on track. it takes a good 5 weeks or more to fully cycle. you are not going to consistently see changes in your readings, they might stay the same for a few days. that's ok. and when the nitrite spikes it tends to spike really high (depending on how much ammonia you are dosing...more ammonia, more nitrite). the three times i've fishless cycled tanks, the ONLY times i had to do a PWC during a cycle was (1) when i overdosed ammonia (2) when nitrates read off the charts and stalled the cycle (i stopped paying attention, whoops!). super high nitrite has never stalled my cycles. i'm just thinking that since you keep messing with the bacteria's food source, it keeps confusing it. depending on the amount of ammonia and nitrite that are in there, is how big your bacteria colony is going to be. ammonia is not it's only food, there are also bacteria that convert the nitrite into nitrate. so by doing PWC's all the time, you're messing with the ammonia-eating bacteria's food source, and the nitrite-eating bacteria's food source, which could explain your inconsistent readings.

and fish food rots very slowly, so if there is any fish food still in there, it could be releasing ammonia here and there, which is why it does not go down after a water change. try to clean up any fish food messes, just avoid vacuuming the gravel (lots of bacteria in there too)

you're doing well, just have patience