A Question About Cichlids!

[FishLover14]

I have a question about Cichlids. I have heard of herbivorous Cichlids, are they aggressive twoard each other like flesh eating cichlids? Can you keep them in a 30-40gal tank? Do they kill each other as often as flesh eating cichlids do? Thanks for you answers and comments.
Dan

 

[grimlock3000]

You questions would be better answered in the freshwater forums

Anyway, you really gotta research up on Cichlids. There are many types of Cichlids, and even though some are agressive, very few are "flesh eating". There are also peaceful Cichlids that can live together in groups with minmal aggression.

 

[BillyZ]

moved to FW General

 

[QTOFFER]

As I understand it, all cichlids are aggressive to some degree, regardless of their preferred diet. Most of the aggression has to do with breeding and protecting a territory.

You should check out this site for info.
http://www.fishprofiles.com/profiles/fw/category.asp?id=Cichlids

Then, come back here and post a list of fish that you like. AA members can give you first-hand experiences and advice about compatibility.

 

[Voodoo Chilli]

It's almost impossible to generalize about cichlid behaviour without first specifying what type cichlid. Like Qtoffer said, do some research into what species you're interested in- post the results- and we can go from there.

 

[FishLover14]

To spceify what type of cichlids i meant like geo cichlids, angel cichlids, or servum cichlids. I know they have at least sopme aggression twoard each other.

Anyone else have an opinoin?

Dan

 

[Madame_X]

Although I haven't kept them, from what I know about cichlids, angels would not be compatible with sevrums.

Angels are mildly aggressive at best and wouldn't stand a chance in a tank with most other cichlids. They would do okay with rams or other small, mellow South Americans, but certainly not Africans.

 

[chasgood]

Its funny how these little critters can be so bold as to attack the aquarium owners hand. Moved 2 of the Kribs hiding spots around tonite and the female was nipping at me. Of course it didnt hurt. All I could do is laugh.

Aggression they do have.

 

[Menagerie]

Keep in mind that any spawning cichlids will get aggressive.

geo cichlids, angel cichlids, or servum cichlids

We used to have an "earth mover" cichlid. He was great, but would eat small fish if given the chance. I haven't keep the other cichlids, but I will say that the Mbuna cichlids from Lake Malawi are primarily algea eaters and can get mean. Mine refuse to allow me to introduce a male into the tank. They simply kill the new fish, regardless that the territories were moved around.

 

[okaquarium]

i have read that if u slightly over stock...and build hiding places up in ur tank not just on the bottom it will keep them from being so territorial

 

[Menagerie]

It depends on the type of cichlid you are stocking and it doesn't always work.

 

[Idealconcepts]

I have a question about Cichlids. I have heard of herbivorous Cichlids, are they aggressive twoard each other like flesh eating cichlids? Can you keep them in a 30-40gal tank? Do they kill each other as often as flesh eating cichlids do? Thanks for you answers and comments.
Dan

Dan,
The diet of a Cichlid isn't always a good indicator of its aggression. For example I have a tank with South and Central American Cichlids who are mainly meat eaters (Fire Mouths, Jack Ds, Convicts, Green Tex, Green Terror, Midas, and once large enough a Chocolate Cichlids) all under 5 inches and Silver Dollars, Giant Danios, Birchers, and a 10 inch Black Arowana and another tank with African Malawi Cichlids, all approximately 2-3 inches and who are mainly herbivores or omnivores (Electric Yellows, Red Zebra’s, Kenyis (SP?), Cobalt Zebras) with 5 young convicts, 8 Buenos Aires Tetras and a 5 inch Australian (Jardini) Arowana. Guess which Cichlids killed more fish. The African Cichlids killed 3 of the Buenos Aires Tetras (they have been removed and sold back to the LFS) and they also nip on the Jardini Arowana. As mentioned you could keep some of the smaller S/C American Cichlids (I’m not too familiar with them) or you could keep maybe around a dozen African Malawi Cichlids in a 40gal. If you go the Malawi route do more research on which onces you like and would be compatible together in a 40gal, also get the fish young as there is more of a chance they will tolerate each other once they become larger. Good luck.

 

[Menagerie]

could keep maybe around a dozen African Malawi Cichlids in a 40gal.

8O I respectfully disagree. A Malawi tank is best kept at a minimum of 50 gals. I think my 80 gal is too small some days.

If you go the Malawi route do more research on which onces you like and would be compatible together in a 40gal, also get the fish young as there is more of a chance they will tolerate each other once they become larger.

I can tell you from experience that this probably will not work. Once the cichlids hit sexual maturity, the tank will be in choas!

 

[Voodoo Chilli]

I agree with Menagerie on this one: you're asking for trouble attempting an mbuna tank in anything less than fifty gallons. Territory and behaviour needs aside, many tank-kept mbuna can reach six inches in length: overcrowding issues abound on this point...

I'll admit in some instances, CA/SA species can be "taught" to tolerate others if raised together (although I attribute this more to less-tempermental specimens, rather than any "teaching" being involved). This doesn't work with mbuna (and a good deal of the other Africans). When sexual maturity is reached- BOOM -you've got problems if the tank isn't set up properly.

 

[Idealconcepts]

Menagerie and Voodoo Chilli,

Point taken, but all tanks and fish are different. If Dan is given the proper information, does more research and understands the potential problems (along with knowing what he needs to do if problems do arise), and the strong possibility that he might need to upgrade to a larger tank once the Malawi Cichlids become larger, I think if he is comfortable enough with trying it he should as long as he understands what actions he needs to take if problems arise int he future.

On another note, maybe both of you could answer a question I had about 7 months ago and recieved a range of various answers. For my 135gal tank I turned into a Malwai Cichlid tank and asked several different boards and several different LFS the approximate range of Malawi Cichlids I can keep in the tank. I was given answers from as little as 17 to as high as 50-55. My gut told me 50-55 is way too many and I felt 17 was a little on the low side, as the research I did suggested that slight over stocking can help reduce the changes of one fish dominating the rest. So I went 27 that were about 1 to 1.5 inches and they are all doing fine. The tank is filtered with 2 Rena XP3's and vacuum every other week but each week I do a 50-70 water change. So can you both give me the range of Malawi Cichlids you would have suggested to me? Sorry to hi-jack the thread.

 

[Menagerie]

So can you both give me the range of Malawi Cichlids you would have suggested to me? Sorry to hi-jack the thread.

As you said, it does depend on the fish. My Mbuna tank has:
4 Pseudotropheus zebras, 2 Pseudotropheus ?s, 1 female Pseudotropheus daktari, female Lemon Yellow (Electric Yellow), female Pseudotropheus socolofi, a hybrid socolofi/zebra cross, one confused male Blue Acara—Aequidens pulcher, Striped River Catfish--Mystus vittatus, a common pleco, one ugly Synodontis and a Leporinus desmotes.

That gives a total of 15 fish in 80 gallons. Things are peacelful right now. I have tried to add more fish--moved all the rocks and added the new fish before adding the rocks back in and each time the established occupates killed the newbies within 12 hours (while we were sleeping). Admittedly, the number of males to females is out of whack since my husband and I bought the fish went they were little (and once they matured, there were deaths ). The only way I know if the fish is female is when I see mouth brooding! We finally live near a GREAT LFS and are trying to better pick out new fish.

As for how many fish to put in, I'm not sure what I would have told you.

 

[Voodoo Chilli]

Idealconcepts-

Your points are one hundred percent correct. I suppose when it comes down to it, I'm very much a realist and I know that a good percentage of folks go into the cichlid hobby "half-cocked". When things go bad, they blame the fish- and there's one more person who's had a bad experience with cichlids. I've found that it's usually best to give newbies a certain set of "rules": this way, they're more inclined to be successful with their tank. Those who get bitten by the cichlid bug will go on to learn and research things and then realize those "rules" can be bent or set aside in certain instances. Those who are happy with a pretty fish tank and don't care to move further into it are content as well. Training wheels, I suppose...

You pose an interesting question and I wish I had a better answer than, "it depends". However, it really does depend on the stocking list and species you were considering. In some cases, 17 would have been plenty. In others, you probably could've gone with more than 55. Maximum adult size and temperment plays such an important role in the decision process and you'd have to take the species into consideration. I'd be interested to hear what you did stock the tank with.

 

[FishLover14]

I am going to buy a sevrum to put in my tank..will see how it goes, right now i lonly have 3 fish in the tank, a black finned shark, and 2 plecos, both resonalbbly small. 14cm and 8cm. Thanks Everyone. Should the servrum be ok, I have 2 large rock sculptures and very thick plant growth. Any more comments. Dan

 

[frshwaterfinatc]

Just one. The small size of the shark may be an issue if the severum is much bigger... your shark may get punked. But no comments other than that. As for all the "rules" to fishkeeping, *#$% them. Every tank is different, as is every individual fish. You will always have exceptions to the rules. And in my experience, the exceptions overtake the "rules". Good luck!

 

[poppab02]

Idea Concepts----
I think if your tank is properly done I would have suggested a range between 20-30 cichlids. It all depends on the species and full grown aggressiveness and size of the fish. The overcrowding idea is taken too far especially in smaller tanks. If there is nowhere to escape aggressiveness then overcrowding does not work. I personally keep a 55 gallon of 8 full grown africans(predominantly pseudo's) with some large bottom feeders.

I wouldn't say forget it to all the rules either. While there are always exceptions, they are called rules for a reason