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Old 10-24-2006, 08:15 PM   #1
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Apistogramma cacatuoides genetics

ok i have obtained some orange flash Apistogramma cacatuoides, though they are still young i have though that some day i might like to try and breed them.
i probably will not try to intentionally breed the ones i have with each other as they are brothers and sisters... i would like to go for some genetic diversity

other then the Orange-flash variety i have seen pics of Reds, Double Reds, Triple Reds, Yellow/Golds, and of course the wild form...

#1 are there any color varieties i am missing?

#2 does anyone know, or know where i can read up on the genetics of these color forms? which ones are dominant, recessive, co-dominant...?
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Old 10-25-2006, 01:12 PM   #2
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But, you may NOT be able to prevent them from pairing up unless you have them in separate tanks.

As far as being brother and sister goes, it is really not a big deal with fish. I am sure that it happens frequently in nature. The brother and sister (also first cousin) issue with humans is due mainly to society's view of it being wrong (in NO way do I think brothers and sisters, or even close relatives such as cousins should produce offspring together in humans). The possibility of there being an abnormality/disease is also greatly increased since there is less genetic diversity among the parents.

I would think that your fish would be okay to mate together. The parents of your fish may also be brother and sister. Did you ask the breeder that you purchased them from if the parents of your fish shared parents?

1. If you go to www.aquabid.com and look under the apistos section you can see more colors of apistos, but I think that you got most of them.
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Old 10-25-2006, 02:21 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bs6749
But, you may NOT be able to prevent them from pairing up unless you have them in separate tanks.
true, they may mate since they are all in my 75 gallon, but i double very many if any fry will survive with all the hungry mouths

the parent of my fish are 2th cousins...it think... they have the same gradparents but not the same parents (there parents were cousins i think) i am terrable with these kind of relationships...
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Old 10-25-2006, 06:59 PM   #4
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I am not certain but once they form a pair they may pair for life. I know the male usually has 2-3 females with apistos but the females may not mate with another male?

GBR's pair for life, so maybe apistos do too. I am not certain. Maybe you know the answer.
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Old 10-26-2006, 08:27 AM   #5
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Cacatuoides are generally harem spawners and don't follow the pair bond like German rams do.

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with inbreeding fish. Most fish come from closed systems to begin with- everyone is related to everyone. Most birth defects/mutations are due to poor water quality; others can be chalked up to genetics (just like every living organism that procreates). Granted, you would eventually want to add some new stock to a breeding program, but you wouldn't have to worry about that for quite some time.
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Old 10-26-2006, 08:36 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoo Chilli

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with inbreeding fish.
the point of this though is i WANT to out-breed, not because i feel inbreeding fish is morally wrong or anything, but i WANT to try and mix things up.
Quote:
Most fish come from closed systems to begin with- everyone is related to everyone. Most birth defects/mutations are due to poor water quality; others can be chalked up to genetics (just like every living organism that procreates). Granted, you would eventually want to add some new stock to a breeding program, but you wouldn't have to worry about that for quite some time.
i realize that if i breed my fish they are probably sill going to be genetically viable, and that inbreeding takes place in the wild.

my point of this is to see if anyone can educated me about the genetics of the color varieties in Apistos... is orange flash a dominant or recessive? so on. i am NOT criticizing anyone who inbreeds fish, that is simply, not my goal...

thanks
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Old 10-27-2006, 01:17 PM   #7
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Not sure if it's dormant or not, but I do know it's a color strain.

With orange flash spawns, apparently some double/triple reds will show up. Check out www.apistogramma.com on their forums if you don't find an answer here. There are lots of people there who breed apistos.

I've got roughly 10 fry right now that are closing on 1/2" long (head to end of tail), but unfortunately they aren't sexable yet. They're all just black and white with no tail coloration. I'll let you know what ratios of orange flash and the reds I get when they start showing some color.

My two are from different lines. My hopes were that I would have stronger offspring since I'm not really sure how long they have been line bred.
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Old 10-27-2006, 01:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRagg

With orange flash spawns, apparently some double/triple reds will show up.
mine appear to be "pure" orange flash, as every offspring created in there line has been orange flash, ane there parent, to this point, have only produced orange flash fry
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Old 11-12-2006, 10:06 AM   #9
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well my apistos have grown and it looks like i have 4 males and one female...
i talked to my LFS, she does not usualy carry apistos, but she is going to look into ordering me some cockatoos. if she can get them i will trade in the 3 subordinate orange flash males, for 3 cockatoo females (hopefully "other" color variations...). i ask specificly for her to check on getting tripple reds...

will know on tuesday...
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