Beginner - 60g Mbuna African Cichlid Tank

[Ulrichsd]

Hello everyone, great forum here!

Other than having a 10g tank as a kid, I'm new to the hobby and on-line it seems like there is conflicting info on cichlids, especially regarding stocking.

I just bought this 60 gallon tank/stand from Petsmart and am planning on using it for a Mbuna African cichlid tank. Still need some filters/heater/gravel/rocks/caves and fish. The petsmart employee suggested treating with the bacteria stuff and testing the water before stocking, which I plan to do.

Here's the list of Petsmart's African cichlids, but there were probably only about 6 or 7 types at the store: Electric Blue, Spotted Leaf, Electric Yellow, Peacock, Bumblebee, Jewel and generic

The person working the fish department there told me to start with 5 cichlids and not to add more than 10 for the size tank.

My questions:
1. Is 5-10 a good number for an all cichlid tank?
2. Are there any other types of fish (non-Mbuna) that I should consider adding to an African cichild environment?
3. Can you suggest an example cichlid mix for stocking a 60g tank?
4. Would it be a good idea to just pick one fish from each type to avoid mating agression? And avoid baby fish filling up the tank?
5. Is it a good idea to just do one of the larger cichlids but group the smaller dwarf mbuna?
6. Is there a good place to buy on-line that is reputable and environmentally responsible that would have more selection?

I am ok with doing a weekly 10% water change, but would prefer something that is not going to be overly time consuming. My big concern is if I get the 1 male:3-4 female ratio and they mate, what am I going to do with all the fish, I don't want to end up with too many fish and an overcrowded tank.

I have to admit that I'm partial to the idea of African cichlids as I did a volunteer trip to Malawi about 8 years ago and visited Lake Malawi on a side trip.

Thank everyone for your help!
Scott

 

[Wy Renegade]

Welcome to A.A. Scott and thanks for joining us. Glad to see you doing some research before you jump in with both feet. You have a nice size tank there to get started into African rift lake cichlids. Personally, since you are new to the hobby, I would suggest that you consider one type of African to stock in your tank; either haps, peacocks, or mbuna. Reason being is that each of these types have some different feeding requirements and for someone just getting started it is typically easier if they only deal with one requirement at a time. Down the road as you gain more experience, you can always add or change. Regardless of which type you choose their are still lots of species to choose from and you will still need to be careful in regards to compatibility. In other words, not all mbuna do well with all other mbuna. If you go with mbuna, I would recommend that you stay away from the auratus, the johanni, and the kenyi as all three types are extremely aggressive and do not do well in a mixed community tank. Lemon yellows, socolofi, and some of the zebra types typically do pretty well. Of the zebra types IME, the reds tend to be the most aggressive. You will need to consider filtration and substrate as well. Most Africans will breed if you have a mixed sex tank, so you either have to pull fry or simply allow it to remain in the tank and deal with adult fish consuming the fry as well as fry surviving and increasing your population.

 

[xlarronlx]

I'm new to cichlids myself but have been running other types of freshwater fish for two years now and if you click my image below it will take you to my thread I posted which renegade and Andrew very kindly offered me a lot of advice and therefore may answer a lot of questions you have. Read through and learn

 

[squirrilah fish]

Sounds like your taking the right steps, read up on new tank syndrome, and avoid adding fish until your past that phase, usually 6 weeks, but there are products you can get to shorten that time. Remember not to add more than a few fish at a time, give the bioload time to cope. Also research the fish your adding. Mbuna tend to be more aggressive, and don't mix well with rock dwelling peacocks. Some haps, like electric blue get pretty large 8-10 inches, keep in mind the adult size of the fish. A general rule is 1 inch of fish per gallon of water.
I have successfully mixed Mbuna, haps, and peacocks, but not all species will work with each other, I have had to get rid of more aggressive fish like Kenyi's and Demasoni.
Just keep doing what your doing, research research research. Don't do trial and error like I did. It's twice as stressful, and twice as expensive.

A lot of people, including myself, overstock their African tanks, (also don't mix Africans with South Americans, Tanganyikans, etc) overstocking helps with aggression, and can make the tank amazing, but in order to do this your system needs to be able to handle it. Start slowly, and add fish slowly overtime. It becomes pretty apparent where the limit is, on yourself as well. How much time you have to clean, do water changes, etc.

 

[Ulrichsd]

Thanks everyone for the advice, I appreciate the links, and suggesions on which types to get and which types to avoid.

What does everyone think if I were to get say two types of Mbuna like these:
1. Electric Yellow Lab
2. Blue Acei (yellow tail)

I was thinking maybe 4 of each: 1 male to 3 female ratio - seems like the yellow and blue color contrast is popular and these are more docile mbuna and maybe can eat the same food? And just let them eat the fry. Introduce one set and then the other set later so to not overshock the tank...

Thanks again!
Scott

 

[Wy Renegade]

A general rule is 1 inch of fish per gallon of water.

1 inch of fish per gallon of water, even as a general rule, is extremely outdated and inaccurate advice with Africans of any type.

Don't do trial and error like I did. It's twice as stressful, and twice as expensive.

Amen

A lot of people, including myself, overstock their African tanks, (also don't mix Africans with South Americans, Tanganyikans, etc) overstocking helps with aggression, and can make the tank amazing, but in order to do this your system needs to be able to handle it. For clarity, Tanganyikans are Africans, they are just from a different rift lake, and you are correct that they should not be mixed with African Rift lake fish from Malawi

Just a few points of clarification (in red).

Thanks everyone for the advice, I appreciate the links, and suggesions on which types to get and which types to avoid.

What does everyone think if I were to get say two types of Mbuna like these:
1. Electric Yellow Lab
2. Blue Acei (yellow tail)

I was thinking maybe 4 of each: 1 male to 3 female ratio - seems like the yellow and blue color contrast is popular and these are more docile mbuna and maybe can eat the same food? And just let them eat the fry. Introduce one set and then the other set later so to not overshock the tank...

Thanks again!
Scott

Sounds like you are off to a good start - you will have a bit of a full-grown adult size difference, but it shouldn't be an issue with those two species. Both will eat the same food without issue and simply leaving fry in the tank is a good starting point. Since you will be adding adult fish, remember that when you go to add the second species you will need to completely rearrange your scape so the established species has to reestablish territories. Additionally, you could probably add a third species down the road if you desired.

 

[Ulrichsd]

Thanks Wy Renegade!

As I'd like my wife to think that she has some input into picking the fish, I'd like to have another option or two in addition to the Mbuna...

I've read that Haps and Peacocks are both pretty docile and get along well together and seems like they both have a carnivorous diet, so they could use the same food? I could do an all male peacock/hap tank?

Anyone have any preference on Mbuna tank vs peacock tank? pros/cons?

Also, is there any type of bottom feeder I could put in a mbuna tank? Red tail shark or rainbow shark maybe just to add something different? Or is that a bad idea? I'm okay sticking with just the African cichlid if that is what is best.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[Ulrichsd]

Ok, the more i research the more I am pretty set on Mbunas. Would it be a bad idea to throw one male peacock into the mix somewhere down the road? Feeding one fish different food shouldn't be so bad. Will it try to mate with the Mbunas?

I'm just trying to think what i add that would give a little more variation to the blue acei and yellow lab mbunas.

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[peacockkeeper]

It depends on what you are looking for. Haps and peacock males can get beautiful colors but the females are a drab gray color and males can take a long time to show color if they are juveniles. The mbuna both males and females can have good colors right away. It might not be a bad idea to check out local fish stores to see what is readily available and then decide what way to go. Check out any fish you find on this site http://www.cichlid-forum.com it helped me a lot when I was starting out and still does.
As far as bottom feeders I know there are some catfish that do well with cichlids but I don't have any and don't remember their names but I'm sure others can chime in to help with that.
Post some pictures of the tank and your progress if you get time I would love to see.

 

[mikem691]

In your opening post you mentioned that you only want to do 10% weekly water changes. That wont cut it with cichlids how ever look into the python or aqueon water changers because you will most likely need a 50% weekly water change to keep NitrAtes below 20ppm.

 

[Ulrichsd]

Peacockkeeper, thanks for the cichlid-forum link, I've run across it and it is great background in trying to learn all the different types of cichlids.

Thanks Mike for the water exchanger suggestion, that looks like it might be perfect. We are moving into a new house in two weeks and it has some extra space so I figured it would be good timing to fill it with an aquarium. I was originally thinking of the living room and the mess and hassle of doing a 2 gallon bucket 3 times to the kitchen sink just for a 10% water change... now I'm leaning towards putting it in the finished basement as there is a wet bar down there and should be way more convenient to hook a water exchanger into.

Also, I'll definitely be posting pics, but we don't move for two weeks and then it will take another couple of weeks to get the water cycling. Can't wait though

Thanks!
Scott

 

[xlarronlx]

Synodontis. They are ideal tank mates for cichlids. Often shy in the daytime but great personality. Rather rare to find in England as they are hard to breed. I think my breeder has bred 5 in 3 years or something like that. But Yeh check out syno catfish bristlenose should be okay too but its a risk. I have both in mine aswell as a rainbow shark and all is good so far.

 

[Ulrichsd]

Thanks for the suggestion! I like that it is an African fish too! Is syno catfish the as upside down catfish?

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[Ulrichsd]

If i get the synodontis it's it best to get a few or just one?

And best to wait to add them after adding the cichlids?

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[xlarronlx]

I would add them first. Won't he a problem. They are many syno available. I have the petricola. Suggested to be in a group of three however I know they will be okay if they are on their own in the tank.

 

[Ulrichsd]

Thanks, They look pretty cool, I can add 2 or 3 of them them first to get the tank cycled and then add the mbunas.

Also, I'm planning on getting a canister filter Eheim classic 2217, seems like they get good reviews.

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[xlarronlx]

Eheim filters are really reliable and will last you forever can't go wrong with eheim. I'm just about to pick up the fx6 next week I will then have enough filtration for my planned 6ft tank which is gonna be awesome. Have a group of three and maybe add rainbow/red tail shark to the three syno and then that will be your bottom feeders sorted

 

[Wy Renegade]

synodontis catfish species should be kept in groups rather than individually.

 

[Ulrichsd]

Thanks! Is 3 synodontis, 4 yellow lab and 4 acei too much for a 60 gallon tank?

Also, I read that synodontis are brood parasites so that might take of the mbuna breeding

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[Wy Renegade]

That should work out well, just make sure you get a species of synodontis that is going to be closer in size as an adult to the cichlids.