Big 'Ol American Cichlids

[LayzorBeams]

Hi guys!! Im pretty new to this forum but i like it!!

I got a 75 gallon tank, 1100 GPH of filtration, heating, and lights. Doing water changes 1 time a week, busy schedule only allows for a 2nd every now and then.

I currently have an Oscar in it. However, in the time I've had it, its grown a few inches from the size i bought it at. Its about 9 inches. It hasn't shown the personality it is said to demonstrate, and isn't scared but spends all his time just lounging around in his hiding spot. Would introducing a second Oscar be good for it? I know it is perfectly possible to keep another oscar in there, even if it isn't super great for the fish. It would be overstocked, but i have good filtration.

Speaking of overstocked, i have asked around my LfS and they seem to think that SA cichlids should be overstocked in a similar but less intensive way to Africans.

Upon looking around at the good old interwebs, I've come to the conclusion that people either support it or they don't, with about half supporting and half not. Personally, i think it makes since, but is more risky than with Africans. The SA/CA fish have more chance to be a "rouge", and kill everything. However, people seem to make it work. Obviously i don't want like 10 fish. But i want like 3-5. I think having 3 fish is good with bioload, and doesn't allow fish to claim territory, thus stopping a major cause of aggression.

Also, i would do all of one gender, unless it was like a super aggressive fish and only a female would make it possible. Example would be Dovii. People never keep male Dovii in community, but a female is a possibility. I know i cannot have a Dovii.

I know overstocking can be done. My LFS has a 75 gallon with: Golden Datnoid(10 in)Midas(8in),Peacock Bass(16in), Arowana(17in), 3x Common Pleco(15+in), Synodontis, 2x Jack Dempsey(6in), Oscar(10in), Red-Belly Pacu(8in), Silver Dollar(5in)

Obviously above list is atrocious. I wouldn't want to keep all those fish together in that tank, or in the same tank at all. But it show it can be done. They are all colorful, and not wounded.

IF I TRIED THIS I WOULD REHOME THE OSCAR FIRST, as it has been shown to me that they are big but get beat up easier than, say, a Texas or Midas.

Some fish i want:

-Flowerhorn
-Midas/Red Devil
-Texas
-Jaguar(probably female)
-Three-Spotted Pike Cichlid
-Jack Dempsey
-Redhead Cichlid(Snypsplilum)
-Silver Cichlid(Argentea)

Personally i would like to have, as i said, 3-5 of these. If need be i can step up water changes. I can do at least 2 smaller ones (25%) per week, and a large one on weekends.

Also, would it be ok to start the fish if at larger size? If introduced at once? I would prefer not to grow them, but i can if it will not work otherwise.

So, i understand that this can go wrong. I am prepared to rehome fish, and possible lose a couple along the way. Also, i know some will not agree to this. I understand why. But please dont leave hate just because of my ideas. I will read and take seriously LOGICAL AND FULL EXPLANATIONS as to why this may not work.

Thank you.





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[ImACoolguy]

I think the main reason not to would be the overstocking factor. Oscars as adults produce tons of waste and even in a 75g can be rough keeping nitrates low. Overstocking will just lead to more nitrates and more waste regardless of filtration. If nitrates get too high the Oscar could develop Hole in the Head disease.

Not to mention, a full size Oscar is a giant even in a 75g, pair that with another giant fish(Midas, Jaguar, etc) and it just would seem cramped in my eyes.


Caleb

 

[LayzorBeams]

Well, first off, thank you for saying your opinion without being a jerk. Thats nice.

Second, i totally agree that an oscar is possibly one of the biggest waste producers of any fish that is commonly kept in aquaria. Even for SA/CA cichlids it is messy.

Third, i guess you may have missed this: im going to rehome the oscar if i decide to change stock.

Also, i can do water changes when i have time. I say i can do 2 25% and 1 35-50 percent on weekends. Any free time i can spare i will do a change on the tank, even if its only like 10%.

And i would like to have at least a trio of fish in the tank. I merely listed a few suggestion as to what i like. I know there are more out in the hobby, even if i wont be able to find them.

I would appreciate any further suggestions on stocking this tank.


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[jmats]

The problem is any aggressive new world Cichlid will torture just about any fish that is smaller than it. With that being said, an Oscar and any other giant fish you have in the tank will send your parameters through the roof.

You could try smaller passive cichlids.

If you must, I vote jack Dempsey with a few good hiding spots. Definitely not a Midas, Texas, pike, or flowerhorn. That will get ugly quick. Perhaps geophagus or arowana?


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[LayzorBeams]

Ok. So in regards to above post:

I am getting rid of the Oscar if i choose to do this? Can i make that more clear?

The variety of pike cichlid is C. Saxitalis, an 8in variety of Pike Cichlid that is not terribly aggressive. Its is probably at the level of an average Jack Dempsey.

An AROWANA! Those things get completely massive! The common silver is known to reach a solid 3-4 feet and wild ones can be 5 feet long! Even the smaller varieties stay above my level packing a good 30 inches or more.

I understand my parameters will be rough. However, i will adjust to what i need to. I solidly believe i can hold 3 larger fish in the tank, provided their specific attitude is ok.

Im looking for the most likely possibilities.

I repeat
I WILL REHOME THE OSCAR

Thank you


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[mikem691]

Are you looking to stock with common fish that you can find at the local LFS or are you willing to order on line? For a common set up you could do something like one Aequidens rivulatus or Nandopsis octofasciatum with two female Archocentrus nigrofasciatus. Or something similar.

 

[TMRC Exotics]

Speaking of overstocked, i have asked around my LfS and they seem to think that SA cichlids should be overstocked in a similar but less intensive way to Africans.

This, yes some south americans can be overstocked. Most central american fish (which is the majority of what your looking at) CANNOT be overstocked. I fail to see why people group central and south american cichlids together, they are very different and can't be lumped in a one size fits group.

On to the centrals your looking at, most of these guys won't work mixed in a 75, aside from the sheer bio load 3 fish the size of small dogs can produce there simply isn't enough space for all that attitude in a 75. Mikes suggestion was good. I think you could work a slightly smaller stocking in around say a jack Dempsey or green terror.
Many of the fish you listed such as the flowerhorn will simply never accept a tank mate of any kind, they have to be housed alone.

Never list a look around the internet as a source of proof stockings will work, there is no shortage of idiots posting tanks that are in no way safely stocked. Better test, go to the respected breeders and keepers of our times and see what they think. Many you can reach out to and get a dialogue on their opinion of what will or won't work.

 

[Freakgecko91]

This, yes some south americans can be overstocked. Most central american fish (which is the majority of what your looking at) CANNOT be overstocked. I fail to see why people group central and south american cichlids together, they are very different and can't be lumped in a one size fits group.

On to the centrals your looking at, most of these guys won't work mixed in a 75, aside from the sheer bio load 3 fish the size of small dogs can produce there simply isn't enough space for all that attitude in a 75. Mikes suggestion was good. I think you could work a slightly smaller stocking in around say a jack Dempsey or green terror.
Many of the fish you listed such as the flowerhorn will simply never accept a tank mate of any kind, they have to be housed alone.

Never list a look around the internet as a source of proof stockings will work, there is no shortage of idiots posting tanks that are in no way safely stocked. Better test, go to the respected breeders and keepers of our times and see what they think. Many you can reach out to and get a dialogue on their opinion of what will or won't work.

South Americans should NOT be overstocked. Most of the larger southies are highly susceptible to HLLE/HITH from raised nitrates. Also, many South Americans have no reason to be overstocked. Aggression is much different in South Americans, it's typically more territorialism/predatory rather than true aggression, like in many of the big centrals like festae, hatiensis, grammodes, etc. some pike species are one the exception, but much of that is still predatory. I would never overstock South or Central Americans. Period.


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[TMRC Exotics]

South Americans should NOT be overstocked. Most of the larger southies are highly susceptible to HLLE/HITH from raised nitrates. Also, many South Americans have no reason to be overstocked. Aggression is much different in South Americans, it's typically more territorialism/predatory rather than true aggression, like in many of the big centrals like festae, hatiensis, grammodes, etc. some pike species are one the exception, but much of that is still predatory. I would never overstock South or Central Americans. Period.


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I wasn't advising to go and overstock south Americans, what I was saying is with many of the species you will see more individual fish in a tank as opposed to centrals which are often limited to 1-3 fish. This is all species dependent and varies from fish to fish. I agree neither should be overstocked.

 

[Freakgecko91]

I wasn't advising to go and overstock south Americans, what I was saying is with many of the species you will see more individual fish in a tank as opposed to centrals which are often limited to 1-3 fish. This is all species dependent and varies from fish to fish. I agree neither should be overstocked.

Sorry, read it wrong then. Multiple fish, yes (depending). Overstock, no.


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[TMRC Exotics]

Sorry, read it wrong then. Multiple fish, yes (depending). Overstock, no.


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You didn't read it wrong. You were on the money. I did write "south Americans can be overstocked". It was kind of early and I didn't think the wording through. My intent was mentioning that by their peaceful nature (again species dependent) south Americans can generally be stocked in higher numbers than the large super aggressive centrals the op was wanting. It did need clarification.

 

[mikem691]

Let's just say some dwarf and semi dwarf sa's can be in a community if properly stocked in a proper tank size.

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[LayzorBeams]

Ok. That makes sense.

So fish like the Midas and Jaguar are very aggressive (i knew this) and then fish like Oscars are not (knew this as well) but it seems that one is just defending its home and the other is just trying to kill to be at the top of the food chain.

Well, anyways, i saw an amazing deal on young Texas cichlids at my LFS, so i bought 6 juveniles ranging from 1-4 inches long. Im hoping to get a breeding pair in a few months. I hear their growth rate can rival an Oscars, so it shouldnt be too long.

The oscar will be kept until i feel it is threatened. The texas should be fine... My tank has a good few hiding spots.

I will start a new thread about the Texas.


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[TMRC Exotics]

Ok. That makes sense.

So fish like the Midas and Jaguar are very aggressive (i knew this) and then fish like Oscars are not (knew this as well) but it seems that one is just defending its home and the other is just trying to kill to be at the top of the food chain.

Well, anyways, i saw an amazing deal on young Texas cichlids at my LFS, so i bought 6 juveniles ranging from 1-4 inches long. Im hoping to get a breeding pair in a few months. I hear their growth rate can rival an Oscars, so it shouldnt be too long.

The oscar will be kept until i feel it is threatened. The texas should be fine... My tank has a good few hiding spots.

I will start a new thread about the Texas.


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First paragraph where you said an Oscar isn't aggressive, I can't agree with this at all. The Texas' will be too...

 

[mikem691]

did you get Herichthys carpintis or cyanoguttatus? Are you trying to get a pair because they are fairly easy to tell. A 75 will be a little tight with a full grown pair of either. I would just make sure the female has a spot that the male cant get to.

 

[RedDevil83]

I've had just about all of those in my 60 a couple people in here probably know, but it just wasn't a good idea red devil,green terror, jaguar in the back, and obvious Oscar McGee.along with flower horn and red terror. They do fight a lot and it takes a lot of work and just not good for the fish lol I must say I love the heck out of my tank now. Good luck though!


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[RedDevil83]

Thanks to you guys convincing me on that once more btw?


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[LayzorBeams]

I didn't mean to say that an Oscar was a peaceful fish.

But at one point i had this Oscar with a Red Devil of equal size and i had to take out the Red Devil within 3 hours. It had almost killed the Oscar.

I hear this is a bit above normal aggression, but it seems that scenarios like this are commonplace, which is the main reason i would've removed the Oscar.

I didn't buy a pair. I bought 6 Texas, so i could be sure to get a male and female, which will either live alone or have a pair of Firemouths.

The 2 biggest look to be male and female though.

Also, any specific ways you recommend creating a spot only for the female? I hate the look of dividers...

As i said, the Oscar is to be removed when it is in danger. The Texas are too small... For now.


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[LayzorBeams]

I've had just about all of those in my 60 a couple people in here probably know, but it just wasn't a good ideaView attachment 275437 red devil,green terror, jaguar in the back, and obvious Oscar McGee.along with flower horn and red terror. They do fight a lot and it takes a lot of work and just not good for the fish lol I must say I love the heck out of my tank now. Good luck though!


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That was your 60 gallon, right? I know you got rid of it but how big were those fish when you sold them? They couldn't have been full grown, or close to it, without killing each other... Thats more big fish than i could imagine in a pretty small tank...

Mine is kinda small too though, by the standards of the people on here.


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[mikem691]

I didn't mean to say that an Oscar was a peaceful fish.

But at one point i had this Oscar with a Red Devil of equal size and i had to take out the Red Devil within 3 hours. It had almost killed the Oscar.

I hear this is a bit above normal aggression, but it seems that scenarios like this are commonplace, which is the main reason i would've removed the Oscar.

I didn't buy a pair. I bought 6 Texas, so i could be sure to get a male and female, which will either live alone or have a pair of Firemouths.

The 2 biggest look to be male and female though.

Also, any specific ways you recommend creating a spot only for the female? I hate the look of dividers...

As i said, the Oscar is to be removed when it is in danger. The Texas are too small... For now.


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I understand you bought 6. I was asking if you were looking to obtain a pair from the 6. Which texas did you get? I hate common names for this reason. Usually the female will have a black splotch on the dorsal fin. Males will usually be larger. When they reach maturity just make sure there is a cave or pipe the female can retreat into that the male won't fit into.

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