Blue Ram help

[icon149]

Does anyone have any pointers for keeping blue rams? I have always loved the fish and would like to try breeding a pair but i can't any to last more than 2 weeks in either of my tanks. I have a 10 gallon planted (some valis, crypts, java fern, and anubis), and it is only has light on half the tank (so there is always a dark corner to hide in). I have two small clay planters as caves with notches cut in them, and i am using Peat to bring the PH down a bit and to soften the water. My ph is usually right around 6.8 or 6.6. I can't test hardness right now.

What else can i do to keep Rams happy? I do use tap water ph 7.0 when i do water changes with out any kind of conditioning apart from a chlorine/chloramine treatment.

any pointers would be much appreciated because i just can't keep myself from buying good specimens and i can't seem to keep them alive. both the fish and my wallet need help!

 

[TankGirl]

Just for background, do you have success with other fish? Also, are we talking about a cycled tank with no water quality issues like ammonia, nitrite or high nitrate?

If the answers are yes, then I don't really see any reason why they should not do well in your setup. It sounds perfect for them. A neutral pH, or even very slightly more alkaline (like 7.2) would be fine, so there is no problem there. The specimens you are getting might have parasites or other illness, I suppose. Do they just not eat and slowly die, or do they show other symptoms?

 

[savga]

I've had bad luck with rams recently also. I got 3 from the lfs and 2 died mysteriously in the first two weeks. The second died after a round of antibiotics that I started when the first got sick. Mine acted sick one day and were dead by the next day. I never figured it out,but I won't be getting more rams from that supplier. The sole survivor is still doing fine. This was in an established, planted, lightly stocked tank.

 

[AtodaJ]

If you get a group of Blue Rams and within a couple of days a number of them are "breathing heavy" then you are most likely dealing with a weak strain of ram in my humble opinion. The mortality rate will be very high no matter what you do. I find that many rams from fish farmers are of weak constitution. If you can find a local breeder you'll have better luck but a local breeder can be difficult to find.

So what do you do? I like to take note of when the blue rams arrive at the lfs. Then I'll wait at least 3 weeks and see if any are left. Most will be bought but quite a few will get sick and die). If any are left you've got a better chance of bringing home a strong ram. The biggest mistake you could make is to buy the ram from the lfs shortly after it arrived there.

Also, acclimation procedures are critical. Never take short cuts when dealing with blue rams. I would acclimate rams over no less than 2 hours.

Good luck!

 

[TankGirl]

That is good advice, AtodaJ, and exactly my experience with the blue rams available here. I have gotten so that I just wistfully gaze at them, and keep on walkin.' I might have better luck with Bolivians, but rarely see them. A mature tank is important, too - you do not want a new setup with rams.

 

[icon149]

Its a mature tank, 10 gallon, I currently have 2 black veil angels that are happy as clams, I'm growing them up a bit before i put them in my 75gallon. There are no ammonia, nitrate, nitrite issues. I have always assumed a piss poor quality fish, but i've tried two different fish stores, and i've gotten fish immediately after arrival, and they would be dead in about 1 to 2 weeks (generally right after the warranty ends), and i've waited till they have been at the LFS for a week or two and then bought them (always colored healthy looking specimens), and they would die in a week or two. I've kept a ram before but not since i moved to the NC area.

I guess i'll try to fight the urges or get a pair of bolivians, I see them from time to time as well.

thanks for the information,

 

[medge00]

bolivians, imo, are too big for a 10 gal. germans would be ok, but then since they are so sensitive, you'd want be sure they're the only ones in there. If you must have them, wait until the fish have been at the store for 2 weeks, then get them. I've found rams do better with a 3 week QT time as well. JMHO. HTH, and good luck!

 

[Guest]

I've had good luck with Germans.

Out of curiosity. What is your water temp, KH,GH in the tank? Using any kind of CO2 for the plants?

I keep my rams in a warm planted SA tank, set at 84 degrees. They are very active at this temp. Perhaps the higher temps help fight off ick or parasites when slowly acclimated to the higher temps in QT????? (I'm just throwing an idea on the table to help brain storm. It could be total rubbish, but worth a thought) Germans have always done well for me when QT'ed and slowly raise the temp to acclamate them to the show tanks warm temps.

Are you QT your fish for observations? Also, do you add the water from the bag the fish came in, into the tank?

 

[icon149]

The water temp is 80 degrees, i don't have a hardness tester so i don't know, but i'm using peat to bring the ph down a little and soften the water. I stopped using CO2 when i started with the peat (my ph would crash with the DIY CO2). I never add the bag water to the tank. The rams would go straight into the 10 gallon where they would stay. I usually acclimate for at least an hour sometimes more with the rams because of the history of failures i've had.

oh yeah and the lfs just keeps them in regular well water, no RO or anything special, so i would assume they could easily acclimate to my water.

While i'm posting, what type of KH,GH test kits would you recommend?

 

[TankGirl]

Get the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals KG/GH test kit - it is a dual kit and is reliable. Might be good to know.

 

[Guest]

The only KH/GH test kit I have used is Aquarium Pharmasuticals as well. Seems to be accurate and reliable for me. In fact, all of my test kits a AP and have been good.

Peat in your filter will lower your PH slightly. It will also lower your GH (soften water)as well. Making the water softer.

Your original post has me a little confussed. I need a little more input.

What is the PH of your tap water after letting it stand for 24 hours?
What is the PH of your tanks water with the peat?
Do you have any driftwood in your tank?
A KH and GH of your tap water (after standing 24hours) and KH/GH readings from your tank would be a huge help. Most good, reputable fish stores can test you KH and GH, if you can't purchase the test kits right away.

IMO KH and GH test kits are a must have with planted tanks or the keeping of sensitive fish such as Rams or Discuss. Rams like clean, stable, soft water.

If you can provide me with the answers to the questions above, it would make it much easier to pin point your problem.

 

[Voodoo Chilli]

This sounds more like an issue with poor strains of blue rams, rather than water issues. I've kept and bred blues in water with pH levels approaching 8 and hardness levels over 100! Unless your water parameters are fluctuating due to the additives you are using (a STABLE pH is more important than the "proper" ph, IME), your water isn't to blame.

So what is? Like a few others have mentioned, poorly bred rams are the main culprit in heavy ram mortality rates. Your shops are obviously not getting the "good stuff", so it may pay to check with other shops who may have different suppliers- or better yet, see if you've got any local breeders in your area. Bernie finally found a supplier that offers beautiful rams that are very hardy and resilient to shipment, transporting home, etc. Needless to say, he sells out of them rather quickly...

Hang in there and I'm sure you'll be able to track down a better strain of rams!

 

[Guest]

If the Rams are going through several different tanks of water, such as, well, municiple treated water. From breeder to supplier to customer. Water para's are of great importance with sensitive Rams.

If it a wild caught Ram taken from it natural habitat with a ph of 6 and soft water. Factor in the stress of a long boat ride, packed with thousands of other fish. The LFS then tosses them into a tank with a ph of 7+. Along comes the consumer. The fish is then stressed more while being netted, bagged, transported again. Where it get thrown into another tank with different water para's.

Same thing can be said about captive breed Rams. Usually captive breed Rams have been breed in higher PH's, than thier natural habitat.

If you want to keep sensitive fish, such as Rams, Discuss etc.... It's very important to find out where the fish came from and what water para's it's use to. If you can't meet the needs with clean stable, water , that the fish is use to. Then you should'nt keep that fish. Keep fish that like your tap waters paras (PH,GH,KH).

 

[Voodoo Chilli]

I agree with Troll as to the needs of wild caught fish: however, the vast majority of fish available in fish shops are captive bred (usually in Florida). As a result, MOST captive bred fish are readily adaptable to a wide array of water parameters, assuming they aren't subjected to pH shock, etc. I know persons who keep discus, apistogramma, and other soft water species in water with pH levels near 8. Granted, things have to be corrected if breeding is an objective in keeping the fish, but just keeping the fish healthy requires a steady, STABLE pH.

There are no hard and fast rules regarding this, but I've been through this routine with rams myself and would be willing to bet the cause of high mortality rates is due to poorly bred strains of fish.

 

[icon149]

I just bought one blue ram, gonna try again, I also Got a GH/KH test kit and i'll post the readings on the 24 hour tap water and what my tank reads as soon as i get some. The Rams in my LFS i believe come from Florida (who knows if they are asia before that or not). and they are always beautiful in the store (maybe they have been injected with hormones?) but the guys at the LFS insist that this is not the case. I'll keep an eye on my ram and let you know what developes.

Oh how about Food? what do you feed a blue ram? frozen brine shrimp? beef heart? or just ol' flake food?

I've got a good mix of different freeze dried and flake foods, and usually have at least one variety of frozen food for special occasions!

 

[webmoose]

I've read that you should be careful with the rams diet and they can get "backed up" from too meaty of a diet.. Variety is the suggested with a slant to the veggies....

With my Ram's I've noticed that they can and will be pigs so be careful how much you feed them.

Moooooose

 

[Voodoo Chilli]

I always fed my rams a high quality flake or pellet food (Omega One is my favorite) with the occasional meal of frozen brine shrimp to keep them in breeding condition.

I don't recommend feeding cichlids beefheart: fish are cold-blooded, so they specialize in fatty acids with a low melting point. This prevents the fatty deposits from being rigid at low temperatures. Warm-blooded animals store fatty acids that have a high melting point. Since fish can't assimilate the warm-blooded animal fat as well, it stores in the liver and can cause organ degeneration. That's not good for your fish.

 

[balasharkfreak]

Hey all,

Can any of you suggest a good peat to place under my substrate? (As in brand name and where I can get it.)

Thanks,
Dan

 

[TankGirl]

Hey, Dan - maybe you could post a new topic - that would get the most responses. AFAIK, garden center peat sold in bales is typically used. I recommend the FW Planted forum for your question.

 

[icon149]

Blue Ram #1 is still going strong, although her color isn't quite back (black spot is faded) and she isn't eating from the surface (I think she scavanges), No heavy breathing, or strange swimming. But she obviously hasn't settled in yet. I'll keep you posted as to any new developments.

Oh Another Question, do most of you keep rams in pairs? one male one female? or harems? one male multiple females? or do you let them fly solo?