Bolivian Ram pairing help!!

[VioletEmber]

So I have one BR who I was told was a male.



I have been trying to find some females for him (looking for just one pair for my 20 long). I got two more BRs hoping that at least one of them was female and they would bond. He has managed to chase both into the corner behind the filter to hide in terror.











I suppose one possibility is that all three are males and the original male is just protecting his territory and I should remove the two new ones.

But can anyone tell from these terrible photos whether either may be female? And would this be normal behavior if they are? I am guessing from his behavior towards the new ones that they are males, but I don't know enough about BR mating patterns if a male would treat new females this way as well.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[absolutangel04]

The last picture is a male.
I am not sure about the first picture, but I tend to think maybe female...
The fish in the front of the middle 3 pictures is male as well.
I suggest removing the original fish for a bit and then re-introducing it once the others feel a bit more comfortable in the tank. If that isn't possible, try re-arranging the whole tank at night when the lights are off. That messes up the territorial lines and can get fish to chill out. The time out method would probably work better though if its possible.

 

[VioletEmber]

Here are some much better pictures which may help some.

For clarity I am giving them temporary names!

Here is Marshmellow:






Here is Banana:








And here is Blueberry Muffin:








Hope this helps!

 

[absolutangel04]

OK, Banana and BB Muffin are definitively male.
I am still not sure about Marshmallow. Those pictures have me tending toward male, but its to say for sure (especially since I was tending the other direction from the other pictures lol).
When your original ram chases the others, do they lip lock?

 

[VioletEmber]

When I first put BB Muffin and Banana together in QT they lip locked for a few minutes but settled into a little friendship soon after. When I put them in the tank with Marshmellow however, Marshmellow has only chased them and nipped at them.

 

[absolutangel04]

Ok, males usually lip lock, and females are more likely to chase/nip. The behavior suggests that the new guys are guys and your original ram may be a girl. IME, the girls are actually much feistier than the boys. I still suggest putting her in time-out for a bit or re-arranging the tank to chill the original fish out a bit. Then you will be able to tell better who will get along with whom.

 

[VioletEmber]

Well Marshmellow is definitely the most feisty of the three. I'll try your suggestions and see what happens. Maybe I'll get a pair out of this soap opera after all!

 

[randokam]

I have a pair of Bolivian rams that are currently taking care of their fry (first time breeding them, the fry are doing well so far- almost free swimming). When the pair were courting, they lip locked a little but then hung out together afterwards. I believe that may be a part of their courting behavior. If they lip lock and stay away from each other, that could be them fighting over territory /dominance.

Perhaps you have a pair developing!

Here's a pic of my pair Guarding over their young:





Female is on the left, male on right.

 

[Tetra1990]

I have a pair of Bolivian rams that are currently taking care of their fry (first time breeding them, the fry are doing well so far- almost free swimming). When the pair were courting, they lip locked a little but then hung out together afterwards. I believe that may be a part of their courting behavior. If they lip lock and stay away from each other, that could be them fighting over territory /dominance.

Perhaps you have a pair developing!

Here's a pic of my pair Guarding over their young:

Female is on the left, male on right.

So the female has a more straight down face and the male has more a slanted face? I have 2 brs and I'm thinking they are both males.

 

[randokam]

Sorry about these multiple posts...

 

[randokam]

Yes, there are differences in the face shapes, as well as the females have a more rounded body shape and males have a longer and slightly larger body.

Also, you can check their bellies for their sex organs. With my pair, I have observed the female having a more pronounced sex organ (called the ovipositor) that sticks out like a nub between the caudal and anal fins:



The male's sex organ is pointier, and less noticeable:




There's a pretty good article that I learned a lot from here.

But to be honest, I wasn't totally sure until I saw the female laying eggs