Bolivian Rams with Ellioti and Keyholes...?

[JAX3000]

Hi,

I'm working out the stock for my new 75g (4' x 2') aquarium and I'm pretty sure on;
4 x Keyholes (2 pair)
2 x Ellioti (1 pair)
To be introduced in that order.

My question is, could I bring in a pair of Bolivian Rams first, or would they get bullied by the bigger guys when they arrive?

On a side, would Rummynose Tetras be ok in there, or are they too small to cope?

Thanks


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[Brookster123]

That tank could probably work without the firemouth, they will def. Eat rn's, probably pick on the keyholes. The keyholes are petty lax, bolivians too. Why not bolivians, keyholes and the tetras may be ok if you get full grown. Red eyed tetras area little larger and fuller bodied.

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[JAX3000]

The Ellioti's should be easier going than Firemouths no?

I'll forget about the Rummynose Tetras. They were an afterthought.

I have provisionally decided on this as my stock list;

4 x Keyhole (2 pair)
2 x Ellioti (1 pair)
1 x Ruby Shark
15 x Gold Barb
15 x Bleeding Heart Tetra
8 x Zebra Loach
1 x Bristlenose Pleco

The plan would be smallest first and where cichlids are concerned, take more than required until pairs form and remove the rest (back to the fish store).

So the question is, if they're introduced before all the larger cichlids, would Bolivian Rams get along ok in there too? Having been introduced first and with 340L and 4' x 2' footprint, I think they should be...

What are your thoughts people...???




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[Brookster123]

My fualt. Confused the 2.. they seem pretty calm as well.. I'd wait for someone else with more experience to weigh in.. not sure about the shark's temperament? They can rather territorial? No?

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[JAX3000]

Cool. I was going Red Tail Black Shark, but changed to Ruby Shark as they are less aggressive and I would introduce it small and last, so believe that should be fine...

So, anybody have Ellioti experience with Bolivian Rams? Or a strong opinion on the combination?




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[Mogurako]

That's to much cichlid and not enough floor space. Also Thorichthys with the exception of Meeki and Pasionis need cooler water, around 74-76.


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[JAX3000]

I've read they'll work water wise, but I'll look into that. Thanks

In theory, what would you say if I made it 1 pair each of the Bolivian Rams, Keyholes and Ellioti, introduced in that order?

Bolivian Rams and Keyholes both being small and docile and the Ellioti (not exactly large or unduly aggressive, in Cichlid terms) joining last...?


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[Mogurako]

Cut out the maculipinnis and your stock should be just fine. There's no need to force a Cichlid into a stock list when it really doesn't go with anything else.


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[Fishy Smell]

Yes, I think in pairs it's pushing it, and the Thorichthys are not killers but quite a bit more aggressive than the rather placid Rams and Keyholes. I wouldn't put 15 bh's and 15 golden barbs in either, maybe 8 bh's and 6 golden barbs, maybe with something for the top like GW Panchax, maybe 2 males 4 females.

Perhaps just get 2 keyholes and a Bolivian ram, and 2 or 3 more single cichlids of a similar nature and size.


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[dalto]

I had a pair of keyholes and a group of bolivian rams in a 75 very successfully. Both were very peaceful. The bolivian rams would occasionally tussle for dominance within the group but never did any damage and never bothered anything else in the tank. Adding a CA cichlid to this mix will be touch and go, it will also make stocking community fish a little more difficult.

In general you have too many bottom dwelling species. Bolivian rams, loaches, shark and the BN pleco. I think this may cause some bottom territory problems.

The tetras should be fine and I am not that familiar with gold barbs but you would want to make sure don't add anything that will nip at the cichlids. BH tetras are rather large so adding 15 of them will use a lot of your stock space. I would not do 15 of both the BH and the gold barbs.

 

[mikem691]

Also on the bottom dwellers your saying 75 gallon but giving the foot print for a 120. If its a standard 75 its only 18" deep which means you loose a 48 x 6 of floor space.

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[Fishy Smell]

Yeah, the zebra loaches can be nippy and get a reasonable size IME. I don't believe gold barbs are so nippy in 6+ but haven't kept them before, seen them in stores at a good 3" so 15 of them would crowd the tank somewhat.


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[Brookster123]

I feel like a group of barbs would outcompete the tank for food, if they're anything like Odessa that is. ..

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[JAX3000]

- What about a SINGLE Ellioti With the Keyholes and Rams?
- Or would a pair of Ellioti work with my stock list and NO other Cichlids?

If I lose the Ellioti altogether, I'm interested in the possibility of singles of other species of cichlid, I hadn't considered this. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance...

I'll reduce numbers of BH Tetras and Gold Barbs. Apparently the Gold Barbs should be no trouble if kept in a decent sized school, but I guess 15's not necessary...!

GW Panchax looks like a fantastic addition to the list. I'm on that! Thanks.

Re size, it's a 75 but I was accidentally giving cabinet size...! Sorry, it's 20" x 44" footprint.
With that in mind I guess all these cichlids, loaches, a shark and a Plec is over doing it on the bottom! Back to the drawing board there! I'm still more focused on compatibility of the Cichlids at the moment and I'll work around them.

Thanks so much for your time, this is solid gold advice for me and I'm going to act on it. Just need to nail a plan first...




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[JAX3000]

Oh, and yes, Keyholes and Bolivian Rams as the only Cichlids is a good point, just want to exhaust any alternative combinations fist.... Thanks


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[dalto]

- What about a SINGLE Ellioti With the Keyholes and Rams?

It is possible it would work but it is also possible it will fail. T. maculipinnis is quite a bit more aggressive than the other two.

- Or would a pair of Ellioti work with my stock list and NO other Cichlids?

Probably.

If I lose the Ellioti altogether, I'm interested in the possibility of singles of other species of cichlid, I hadn't considered this. Any suggestions?

If you stick with the keyholes and rams you should be able to add other peaceful south americans as single fish.
- Heros efasciatus(Severum)
- Mesanautu species(Festivum)
- Laetacara species(excluding thayeri)
- Aequidens metae(Yellow acara)
You couldn't do all of them but maybe 1 or 2 depending on the rest of your stocking. Keep in mind, the more cichlids you add the more other stuff needs to go.

I'll reduce numbers of BH Tetras and Gold Barbs. Apparently the Gold Barbs should be no trouble if kept in a decent sized school, but I guess 15's not necessary...!

Honestly, I think you will find that a single larger shoal of one of those fish will be better than two smaller groups.

GW Panchax looks like a fantastic addition to the list. I'm on that! Thanks.

I have never kept these but wouldn't they eat your barbs?

 

[JAX3000]

Perfect! Lots of homework there for me... Thanks

Why not the Barbs and the Tetras...? Thought they'd share the mid - top space nicely, no?

 

[dalto]

Why not the Barbs and the Tetras...? Thought they'd share the mid - top space nicely, no?

It is just a personal opinion thing. I have found that one large shoal is much more interesting to watch than two small groups. It also makes a more impactful display when you look at the tank.

 

[Brookster123]

It is just a personal opinion thing. I have found that one large shoal is much more interesting to watch than two small groups. It also makes a more impactful display when you look at the tank.

+1

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[Fishy Smell]

I agree that really one school would look best. 12 bh tetras would be good. GW Panchax are something that really do stay at the surface which is rare in the hobby. They would be out of the way of the rest, would replace the yellow of the barbs and no, they don't eat anything but the smallest. I wouldn't put neons and similar with them, or fry of any description but everything you have mentioned would be fine.
Cichlid wise a keyhole would work with a single Thorichthys, but a Bolivian ram is a risk with a Thorichthys. I like some of the other suggestions made above, although the Metae can be on the aggressive side so I would caution that one.


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