Change in Angel behaviour

[TomK2]

Just notice that my Angels are acting a little wierd today. One Angel is spending all its time poking its nose into the nooks and cranny's of a fake platic plant. I have seen Platy fry hiding in those nooks in the past (though not recently), so I assumed this was some sort of hunting behavior. However, the other Angel is spending all its time chasing every other fish around the tank. It is being agressive towards the Platies, the Danios, and the Tetras. then it comes back to where the other one is and hangs out for a while, then it starts chasing fish again. One angel seems to do all the chasing, the other seems to be inspecting plants real closely. I had not seen the angels bother any of the other fish before.

So, I figure either there are Platy fry hiding in this one plant or area and the Angels have laid claim to it, or the Angels are thinking of pairing off? Could this be some sort of courtship ritual where one fish defends the area, and the other looks for an egg spot?

I dunno. The angels seem to be diving into nooks and crannies reall agressive too. Some sort of feeding frenzy brought on by the live food (platy fry?) - but I haven't seen any, and probably won't with this degree of predation.

 

[Jchillin]

What you are describing is the tried and true beginnings of spawning. Inspecting the nooks and crannies for an ideal spawning site is quite typical. The mating part is over by and large. They are definitely not hunting for food.

Congrats.

PS...you need to update your sig, your angels are no longer adolescents.

 

[QTOFFER]

I think angelfish like a flat, sloping surface to lay eggs on...perhaps a piece of slate or clay flowerpot.

Here's to a successful spawn!

 

[rich311k]

Congrats Hope it goes well for you.

 

[TomK2]

Well, there is no chance of a sucessful hatch in a community tank, right? I was thinking that I would observe for an egg lay, if it occurs, then I know they are a spawning pair. Then I could consider moving them to a spawning tank for next time? Or should I think about removing the eggs to a grow out tank? Hmmm. Off to the breeding forum.......

 

[Jchillin]

No need to start another thread...this one is good. I moved it to breeding for you.

 

[Jchillin]

...in the meantime, you are correct in your assessment that you will probably not have any eggs surviving in a community tank. I'm sure you could set up a separate tank if you wanted to.

Just a thought on mated pairs. Be aware that two females could do this if there is no male in the tank when the reach spawning age. One of the females will take on all the characteristics of a male, even "fertilizing" the eggs that the other female has laid.

The only way to know for sure is catching them in the act and inspecting the breeding tubes. A female's is round and the males is conical.

 

[TomK2]

Yeah, I had heard that. I figure there is only a 50% chance that they are male and female, because these are the only two survivors out of 6 purchased a year ago. Its not like there were several angels to choose from, and these two picked each other. When I had 6 of these, one of them was very aggressive, one was rather passive and nearly died. I don't know if that means they are likely to be of opposite sex.

I have looked at pictures of the breeding tubes before, and I could never tell the difference between male and female. So I don't think you could count on me to verify the sex.

So, I would have to put them in a breeding tank, and see if eggs would actually hatch to verify that I had a breeding pair?

 

[Jchillin]

LOL, I do remember you're adventures back then. I recall you had to put one of them in the cooler for awhile.

You could always check for milt being dispensed, but that is unlikely unless you watch the tank 24/7.

So, I would have to put them in a breeding tank, and see if eggs would actually hatch to verify that I had a breeding pair?

Though I have yet to follow my own advice, placing them in a separate tank will increase your odds of having a successful spawn, which in turn will eliminate doubt as to whether you have a pair. Lastly, they may not get it exactly right the first couple of shots and if they feel that it wasn't successful, they will remove them on their own.

 

[TomK2]

Thats why I figurred I might have to remove the pair. If they did lay eggs, and the eggs were eaten, then I would never know if they are just female/female with unfertilized eggs, got it wrong as male & female, or are just not going to raise fry even if they are male/female. Perhaps the easiest way is to observe for eggs in the community tank, then do something different next time? Or is it fairly certain than I could set up a breeding tank just upon what I have seen so far.

BTW, all I have available is a 10 gal tank. I have read that the do better in a 20 gal. But I could have a 10 gal up and running in a short period of time. I have colonized sponge intake tube filter from the goldie tank, and all the colonized media I could ever want from my fluvals. And 30 gals of dechlorinated, heated water in my holding tank. I figure I could have a QT/breeding tank up and running in an hour.

edit-

JC-

I sure hope the agressive one doesn't freak out in the breeding tank - its the same one it served time in for murder last year!

Also, how much time do I have before the spawn? is this behaviour something that goes on for a few days, or do I need to move them into a BT quickly?

And when did the multiple, consecutive posts by one author software cop get installed?

 

[Jchillin]

I sure hope the agressive one doesn't freak out in the breeding tank - its the same one it served time in for murder last year!

Now that "he" is probably more concerned about being a daddy, he will focus more on protecting the spawning site than going for the ummm...recidivist behavior.

Also, how much time do I have before the spawn? is this behaviour something that goes on for a few days, or do I need to move them into a BT quickly?

Depends on how long it takes on the "female" to find the "perfect" spot.

And when did the multiple, consecutive posts by one author software cop get installed?

Mod was part of the upgrade to site earlier this year. PM coming.

 

[TomK2]

Well, I am still not convinced it is breeding behavior ? They have been very busy begging for food. So I feed them. There are flakes and frozen bloodworms floating around the tank, and the angelsl are taking them agressively when they float by, but are spending all thier time looking under plant leaves and in plant nooks, even while there is food floating around the tank! They are really scrutinizing the crannies of the plants, and aggressively diving into the plants. This sure does look like an agressive hunting behavior.

I am leaning towards this being a live food (platy fry) feeding frenzy, I think the Angels have figured out where the fry hide and are just nuts about it? But I haven't seen any fry flushed from hiding spots. These angels are really inspecting every cm of plant surface, even the undersides, as if they are looking for something important. They stopped doing it to beg for food, but went back to this behaviour even before all the food was eaten. And there hasn't been much fish chasing today.

And they used to just calmly glide around the tank.

 

[Jchillin]

I'd stake 100 hamburgers that it is pre-spawning behavior. Inspecting leaves, wild charges, etc. are all signs. Once a particular location is being inspected, no one shall enter this area. The angels will charge aburptly just to intimidate any fish in the surrounding area. If one does come to close, they will charge directly at them and then suddenly stop and go back to the interesting location.

 

[TomK2]

What do you think about trying to induce spawning in a 10 gal tank? Too small?

 

[rich311k]

I dont know if a ten gallon is big enough I would think at least 20. My two spawned 1 week after getting their own 29 gallon tank. I actually got some wrigglers after the second spawn. The parents ate them but at least I know they are fertile. I am working on setting up a third tank so I can seperate the parents and children.

 

[TomK2]

Why not move the parents back into the main tank after a spawn? Not that buying another tank is a bad thing....

However, in a full home, the amunt of effort to develope space for another tank is extraordinary. I have a 10 gal available. Lots of effort would be required to convert the 10 gal area to 20 gal, or to clear more space for a new 20 gal area. And it could all end up being for naught. Hmmmm. I'm off with a tape measure to do some room measurements...........

 

[rich311k]

I already have two in the main and I dont think putting the two back would be a good idea. They wre doing a good job of killing each other before I moved them. So I will just have to get another tank. Darn!!!